Friday, May 20, 2011

Indie Bookstores Boycott Konrath?

It's come to my attention that on a Yahoo group for booksellers there has been a call to boycott Amazon's new Thomas & Mercer imprint. I signed with Thomas & Mercer for STIRRED, the eighth Jack Daniels novel, co-written with Blake Crouch (who will chime in on this topic after me).

I've also heard that certain booksellers want to return any books of mine they have in stock as a punitive measure.

So signing a deal with Amazon makes me the enemy of bookstores?

Me, who has signed at over 1200 bookstores? Who has thanked over 1500 booksellers by name in the acknowledgements of my novels? Who has named five major characters in my series after booksellers?

Now I'm the bad guy, for wanting to continue my series and make a living?

You may know that my publisher, Hyperion, dropped my Jack Daniels series after six books, even though they continue to sell well as backlist titles. The only way I could get print books in the series into the hands of fans was to sign with another publisher.

Thomas & Mercer stepped up to the plate to give my fans what they want: more Jack Daniels books.

Amazon allowed me to get into bookstores--something self-pubbing couldn't do for me without a lot of extra work on my part. They offered me a terrific deal, and have done more marketing and promotion than any of the publishers I've previously worked with.

They've treated me with nothing but respect, listened to and implemented many of my ideas, and have been an absolute joy to work with.

They're the new publisher on the block. But they're already doing it better than anyone else.

This trend won't end with me. Amazon will continue to publish more and more authors, because the major publishers are making a lot of major mistakes and a lot of writers are getting hurt by the Big 6.

So my question to indie bookstores is: When other authors sign with Amazon, and they will, are you going to boycott them as well? What happens when it is a major, bestselling author? Is this how you service your customers, by limiting the amount of choice they have?

I'll be honest. I'd love it if my books went out of print, so I could have the rights back. I'm getting financially reamed by my publishers, just like every other author is. Sending my books back isn't hurting me in the least.

But it saddens me that any bookseller would take such a limited view of my intent.

My goal remains what it has always been: to write books for fans and make a decent living.

I get a lot of hits on this blog. I could mention the name of the bookseller that thought up this boycott, and ask my readers to boycott them right back. I bet I could even get a picket line going to protest.

Of course, I would never do anything like that. I love bookstores. I want them to succeed. I haven't done many signings lately, but I'll be at the Printer's Row Book Fair in Chicago on Saturday June 4th at 11:30 am, signing at Big Sleep Books, one of my favorite indies.

I'm not the enemy. Neither is Amazon.

The threat to bookstores is a technology that is rapidly being embraced by readers.

I didn't invent ebooks. But for the first time in my writing career, I'm making a comfortable living because of them. So are many other authors.

This doesn't make us bad. It doesn't make us anti-bookstore.

It just makes us human.

The times are changing. In a few years, there may not be anymore chain bookstores.

The indies have a chance to survive, and even thrive. But only if they embrace change.

Being afraid of change has never lead to success.

So what can indies do?

Read on. Blake and I have a few ideas...


BLAKE SEZ:

I’ve published four novels with the legacy publisher St. Martin’s Press. For my first two, I toured extensively, on my own dime, across the country, almost solely visiting indie bookstores. I did this because I love indie bookstores, the booksellers, the owners... you can feel the love of books when you walk into one, which is often absent in the chains.

My decision to release RUN on my own has been extensively chronicled on this blog. It had nothing to do with turning my back on Indie bookstores. It had everything to do with seeing the change happening in the market, and wanting to make a living for my family.

My agent tried valiantly to sell RUN to Big 6 publishers, for many months. There were no takers. And yet, I've managed to sell 20,000 copies on my own in just a few months, and I'm currently in talks with a well-known independent bookstore to release a limited edition hardcover version of RUN.

So to have indie bookstores now calling for the boycott of my work is baffling, but I understand this is a scary time for bookstores. When panic sets in, this leads to knee-jerk reactions.

I recently met with the book-buyer at my local indie store to discuss this very thing... what do indies do when they’re losing writers to ebooks.

First of all, I think indies need to understand that the vast majority of the writers whose work they try to sell are getting reamed financially by their publishers. They’re probably not making a living on the books they write. The vast majority of writers get dropped by their publisher. And those who don’t are fighting a battle to survive that is largely out of their control. For every Patterson or Grisham you have, there are hundreds, if not thousands of books that fail. I understand you need those heavy-hitters to keep your lights on. But I need ebooks to keep mine on. This would seem to set our interests against each other, but I don’t think that’s necessarily the case.

Ebooks are here. They’re now the preferred way to read, and lashing out against writers embracing this to make a living isn’t going to change anything.

My choice to sign with Amazon was twofold: (a) it allows me to reach more readers and fans than I ever could on my own; (b) Amazon is also releasing a trade paperback of Stirred, and will have the full distribution power of any major New York publisher. Even on the books I release myself, I make everything available in print, and these are easily ordered from the major distributors.

The bigger question, the one I discussed with the folks from my local bookstore, is what happens next for Indies?

Here are some ideas Joe and I had:

1. Sell used books. There are billions of books in print, and they aren't going away anytime soon. Joe's publisher charges $7.59 for an ebook of Fuzzy Navel. You could sell the used paperback for $1.99.

2. Remember why people shop indie. My local store has the best, most knowledgeable, well-read staff around. They can turn you on to a book you’ll love based upon a short discussion. They read constantly. There is still something about a live, in-person recommendation that beats reading Amazon and B&N reviews any day. I have no doubt that Maria’s Bookshop in Durango, Colorado will survive as long as there are publishers, because the experience they give the customer walking in the door is unmatched, and you simply cannot get it on the Internet.

3. Author events. But you need to give people a reason to attend other than just a signature. Perhaps an exclusive short story from that author, free to everyone who buys a book. Perhaps a $30 admission includes a book, a coffee, a copy of the talk on DVD, and a signed t-shirt. Give your customers something they can't get elsewhere.

4. Start publishing. If you're an indie store beloved by authors, ask those authors for a story to put into an anthology, which you can then publish in print or as an ebook. Or ask favorite authors with out-of-print backlists if they'd like to partner with you to re-release those books. If Amazon is becoming a publisher, why can't you?

Between Joe and I, we have over twenty book-length works available. If you'd like to publish any of them and sell them out of your store, contact us. We'll give you an 85% royalty, send you our already formatted interiors and covers, and you can print and sell as many as you'd like. Or we can do the printing, and ship them to you signed, and give you the same 40% discount the major NY Publishers give you per book.

These are trade paperbacks, 9"x6", priced at $13.95.

Our titles include:
65 Proof (Collected Stories)
Shot of Tequila
Disturb
Trapped
Endurance
Origin
The List
Suckers
Jack Daniels Stories (Collected Stories)
Horror Stories (Collected Stories)
Flee
Draculas
Banana Hammock
Run
Desert Places
Locked Doors
Serial Uncut
Killers Uncut
Famous
Serial Killers Uncut
Fully Loaded (Collected Stories)
Thicker Than Blood

You might think, "That's a nice gesture, but how will it help me compete?"

Between Joe and I, we've sold over 400,000 self-published ebooks. I'm betting some of your customers would want the print versions of these.

And we're just two authors. Imagine doing this with a hundred authors. Your own imprint, selling books the chains don't sell, signed copies that Amazon doesn't sell, for a higher profit margin than you get anywhere else.

5. Ebooks. Google Books has been underwhelming so far. But the ABA is a powerful group, and certainly this coalition can get a system in place to get the works of writers to their fans. Indies selling Indies. With the current retailers pretty much letting anyone publish anything, there is a window here for the ABA to hone the overwhelming sea of crap currently offered by other ebook retailers and to present a better Indie bookstore.

Imagine the Indiebound Indie-bestseller list. Indie recommendations. Indie book groups. Then you’ll be able to have virtual events. Internet booksignings using Autography to sign ebooks and Skype for the author talk. We've already partnered with OverDrive to get our books into libraries, and we're on every major (and minor) ebook platform.

Indie bookstores should have a platform. You're a smart, tough, dedicated group who loves to read. You don't need to wait for others to bring you into the fold. You can create your own ebook network.

When this happens, Joe and I will be the first in line to give you our work to sell.

Nobody wants to see the Indies disappear. There is a tremendous opportunity here, but it starts with taking the emotion out of how you view ebooks and looking at it with an eye to what customers want.

What they want hasn't changed. They want your advice about what books to read.

You just need to figure out how you can best serve them in this brave, new world.

411 comments:

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jtplayer said...

Gain back a day or two per month, by shopping online?

Really?

Sheesh Neil...you throw out some whoppers sometimes man ;-)

Buying diapers from your local store does not take away from your sleep time or kid time. Not now, 10 years ago, or even 20 years ago.

And you're not ever gonna "gain back" your commute time. If it takes you an hour to get home from work, well that hour is lost.

Granted, if you commute by train or bus or carpool, you can take care of some business by smart phone or laptop. But if you drive solo, as the vast majority do out here in So. Cal., well you're kind of hosed.

One thing's for sure, getting on the computer when I get home and buyin' a bunch of shit online ain't gonna give me my back commute time.

Once again, the majority of people buy online 'cause it's cheaper.

jtplayer said...

Btw...totally off-topic here, but I want to give a shout out to Stephen T. Harper and his book King's X.

I'm just finishing book 1 and it's absolutely fantastic. I know Steve posts here sometimes, so kudos to you sir!

I one-clicked books 2, 3 and 4 this afternoon. Gotta love that Amazon convenience man ;-)

Unknown said...

JS Wolf, I think you better look again, according to the article, "Amazon has told US publishers that it will begin accepting digital files in the ePub format in the near future and will also allow users of its Kindle device to read ePub files" Here's the link: http://www.thebookseller.com/news/amazon-accept-epub-files.html

It is speculated that this is because Amazon is going into the book lending biz for Libraries, and because of Overdrive.

JSWolf said...

Holy moly, how did I miss that?

http://goodereader.com/blog/tablet-slates/amazon-to-allow-epub-ebooks-on-the-kindle-e-reader/


Please show me any eBooks on Amazon in ePub that's Sony Reader compatible. Please show me Stirred and Shaken in ePub.

If they are not available in ePub can you tell us when they would be if Amazon is going to sell ePub (which they are not)?

Anonymous said...

It's late and perhaps I'm missing something.

Even if every indie writer stopped writing and making e-books wouldn't there still be e-books?

Why are indies taking the brunt and the responsibility for this?

Unknown said...

Well, according to the article I linked to, they are too...it obviously isn't done yet, the Kindles will have to have a software/firmware upgrade pushed to them, which means they have to write that/but that first. But According to 4 publishers, Amazon has told them this....

JA Konrath said...

Please show me Stirred and Shaken in ePub.

I'm working on it.

JAMES BRUNO said...

When I self-published my first two books almost five years ago, the indie bookstores in my area were very supportive, providing me with a platform for presentations and signings. Their promotional efforts were wonderful. One bookstore manager liked me and my books so much he managed to get me coverage on regional NPR. Another supportive store owner contacted the ABA through their former Booksense program. Their person in charge of promoting authors was very interested and promised all kinds of support -- until she found out I was indie-published. She then refused all contact with me, treating me as if I had the plague. She wouldn't even respond to my requests to return the books I sent at her request for which she had promised to get reviews. All-around shabby treatment.

Fast-forward: these two books have been on three Kindle genre bestseller lists for several months now. Sales are approaching 2,000/mo. and climbing. I have two more books coming out this year. I have to say that ABA's shabby treatment of me a few years ago makes me disinclined to have anything to do with them in the future. What goes around comes around.

Bookstores are hitting up against what the economists call "creative destruction," the same process that tore down the buggy whip industry after the advent of the automobile. It's survival of the fittest and (read Amazon) the most adaptable.

Sharper13x said...

Hey THANKS, JT. I've been reading through 208 comments to see how all this "ass clowning" was going to turn out, and down near the bottom, I find that message.

Much appreciated! Steve

Walter Knight said...

Ass Clown?

That is a bit harsh, and awkward to say.

I prefer Sand Toad: A small smelly nefarious amphibian that communicates making an aggrivating fart sounding noise.

Thriller Ink Spot said...

Wow, is all I can say...

There is an old saying, "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen."

On another note, there is an e-book that I came across on the Amazon Kindle store: How to Make, Market and Sell E-books All for Free by Jason Matthews. In the part that I have read so far, he stated how he tried unsucessfully to get his books in bookstores and it was a waste of time. It could have been his distribution or printing option at the time. However, I say all of this to say that from other writers I have spoken to, they have told me that it was rare for their to be sold in book stores, whether they were major or indie bookstores. I understand that stores do not want to lose money by shelving a book by a new author with their own self-publishing company attached to it. It is a big risk.


I think this is all a case of things coming back to bite. For those same authors I mentioned whose work never made it in bookstores, those same authors now have their own place online via Kindle, Smashwords, B&N, etc. I think indie bookstores need to reinvent themselves. Give their readers what they're asking for. Make new deals, etc. There is so much one can do besides boycott...

Whether miniscule sales or hundreds of thousands of dollars in sales that same author has made via e-books, I am not knocking them. If e-book sales or regular self-publishing print sales will get one a deal with a book publisher, why not? I respect writers who work hard and take pride in their work, no matter how they published.

Those are the ones who can stand the heat, so they know what to expect in the kitchen!

Btw, I do all of the cooking in my house, so yes, I can stand the heat! :-)

http://thrillerinkspot.com

Dave said...

Joe, if I have a t-shirt printed up that reads, "There's a difference between taking criticism and tolerating ass clowns," do I have to pay you a royalty, or will crediting you on the shirt suffice?

David Gaughran said...

@josephinewade

EXCELLENT point, and one that should be underlined.

If all indie writers pulled their books from Amazon tomorrow, it wouldn't improve the lot of indie booksellers one jot.

I'm an indie writer, and I'm a huge supporter of indie bookstores.

If Google weren't such a pain to work with, I would have my e-books up there too, and indies could sell them, and I would happily point my readers towards them instead of Amazon.

There's lots of things I don't like about Amazon, but they make it very easy for this unknown writer to reach readers.

Google just throw up roadblocks.

If Indie Booksellers want to do something, they should pressure Google into making it easier for us to list our stuff. Then they could share in this boom too.

But I think a lot of Indie Booksellers are approaching the Google alliance all wrong.

Indie Booksellers should offer a curated selection.

If I go to an Indie Booksellers e-store now I can buy EVERYTHING. Why try and compete with Amazon?

Instead, try curating the list. If you were to handpick the Top 40 titles (according to you) in each genre, THEN I would shop there.

I go to Indie Bookstores for their TASTE, not because they stock every book in the world.

Show me some of that online.

Dave

Anonymous said...

Heh-heh, ass clown funny that. Never knew bookstores were still around!

Not that anybody in their right mind should actually buy books. Torrent baby!

JA Konrath said...

Not that anybody in their right mind should actually buy books. Torrent baby!

I like torrents for out of print albums or hard to find movies. The book torrents I've downloaded have been too much trouble.There are too many steps to take to get it on my Kindle (locate the torrent, download, unrar, format for kindle, upload to kindle.)

For a $2.99 ebook, pressing a button and having instant delivery (with guaranteed good formatting) is preferable.

What I'm waiting for is what they're doing in Japan--a service to turn your print books into digital files. I'd love to have my entire library on my Kindle without having to buy everything all over again.

That said, I'm all for being pirated. Feel free to fileshare to your heart's content.

JA Konrath said...

"There's a difference between taking criticism and tolerating ass clowns," do I have to pay you a royalty, or will crediting you on the shirt suffice?

No royalty or credit needed. Slapping around ass clowns is a free service I provide.

Robert Gottlieb said...

Publishers have been reluctant over the years to do deals with chains individually because of the concern that other chains and/or book stores would react negatively and not take their books. So that is why historically Random house as an example has not done unique deals that are exclusive or semi exclusive with retailers. No one in publishing wanted to alienate those they depend on to carry their product across the North America.

So I am not surprised that Indies are reacting the way they are. They feel under threat and under cut by authors and on line retailers. Indies carry author's books because they want to not because they have to. They feel they have been brushed aside and that some authors have abandoned them. Now they feel they have to protect their interest with the same right an author has to do business with Amazon or B&N without giving the Indies any thought at all.

In addition, when an author decides on being primarily an ebook author the majority of Indies are going to have to pass because the work is cheaper in that format and competes at the same time as the Indie is trying to sell a paper edition of the work at a different price point simultaneously. This problem for some authors I believe given the virtual abandonment by many in the publishing world of the Indies.

I say if you as an author want to have the Indies carry a book then work with them and don't create strategies that simply ignore them and put them in a position where they are treatened and can't survive. If by authors actions they are put in a corner of course they will strike out. If you are going to sell your books at a $1.99 then Amazon or other Internet retailers is the right place to offer it and an Indie is not the right place in the majority of cases. Of course this can impact an author's career but again it is a business decsion.

Now this is not to say ebook original publishing is not good. For many is is a great opportunity. But like all business decisions it does have a down side. It is like being only a mass market paperback author in a sense. You build a price point into the minds of the readers in the market place and Indies simply can't move the product at a higher price point in order to pay the rent and put food on the family table.

It's also a numbers game. Indies work off of a different matrix than an author who can make money selling their books for $1.99. The Indies can't work on those margins.

So there is no incentive to carry ebook authors in the Indie stores as a result even in the paper format. It is a pricing issue as much as anything else.

Like all business environments there are always repercussions for the decisions that are taken. As the publishing business continues to evolve I predict there will be more of what we are seeing concerning Indies with original ebook authors and not less. It is a matter of survival and economics as I point out above.

Robert Gottlieb
Trident Media Group, LLC
www.tridentmediagroup.com

Cyn Bagley said...

Sorry to hear this Konrath (boycott by Indie bookstores). Good luck with your endeavors and of course, I'll keep buying your books when I can.

Yours, Cyn

Marie Simas said...

That said, I'm all for being pirated. Feel free to fileshare to your heart's content.

Joe, I used to think you were crazy for saying this, but you're right about piracy. As soon as my books showed up on torrent sites, my sales increased.

One of my books has been the #1 essay collection on Amazon UK for over a month (not just Kindle sales, but all books), and when I released my second book this month, I made a version available for free on Smashwords. Another sales jump.

Who knew that piracy and free books could guarantee a bestseller?

Stephen Leather said...

Forgive my ignorance but is "ass clown" a genuine American insult or is it used because Blogger bans swearwords? I'm writing a book set in New York and need to know if I'll look ridiculous if my New York detective pulls out his gun and screams "Get down on the floor, ass clown!" I have enough one-star reviews as it is :-)

jtplayer said...

Here you go...from Urban Dictionary:

Ass Clown

Stephen Leather said...

Brilliant. Did you see the examples -

1. Steve is such an ass clown!
2. Steven is such an ass clown!

It's like it knew! :-)

Melissa & David said...

@Stephen Leather: it is a genuine insult, but it is more, IMO, like calling someone a joker. A cop would be more likely to say "scumbag" or "shithead" (basing this on relatives who work in law enforcement).

@jtplayer: your insistence that "the majority" shop online because it is cheaper MIGHT be true in your circle, but not in mine. When I lived in DC and work 60 to 70 hrs a week as an attorney, I bought EVERYTHING online, yes, including diapers and groceries because doing otherwise would have cut into time with kids/sleeping. I did this EVEN THOUGH some items were more expensive. Valued time over $.

Then we moved out to the country for a slower pace, started my own practice, and I have LOTS of free time. But the closest stores are 30 minutes away. I'm not spending over an hour in a car with an infant, a three year old, and a five year old to get a box of diapers when diapers.com will deliver them the day after I order AND will have the size and brand I want. Again, even if Seventh Generation is on sale at Target, not how I want to spend my time.

I am not a minority among my circle.

Selena Kitt said...

I'm not sure what all of that means Neil, but let me say this, I've raised two kids and bought and changed as many diapers as my wife did. And worked a fill time job at the same time. I bought all those diapers at my local Target store.

I just used cloth. Better for the babies, better for the environment and cheaper too. :)

But there IS something about your "local buying" thing that makes sense and I do get it. I buy local produce and meat - all organic. The meat is grass-fed and hormone-free. If I eat a hamburger, I know it all actually came from the same cow. I pay a lot MORE for that than I would if I was buying on Amazon (and yes, I could actually buy organic, hormone-free meat on Amazon, believe it or not...) but it's worth it to me to buy local and support organic farming.

Should I give that much loyalty to my local booksellers? Probably. I have a Barnes and Noble where I am now - no used bookstores at all. We're sort of rural. But where I'm moving, however - we're so rural there are NO bookstores at all. Unless you count Wal-Mart. Which happens to be the only grocery store too. *gulp*

So the reality is I'm making a hell of a lot of money through Amazon and B&N and other Internet book distributors. And I support buying local. Yet the money I'm buying with was not earned locally. It's rather a hypocritical conundrum, and it kind of sucks.

Am I going to pull all my books, go to my local bookstore, and try to sell them there? Sorry, no. But I'm fully aware that I'm taking advantage of a larger system and I'm hurting the "little guy" in the process. That's a fact. And it sucks.

And I'm sure it's no different than the dilemmas Amazon faces, they're just doing it on a larger scale - i.e. paying taxes sucks. If they can get out of it, why wouldn't they?

When the bottom line in a society becomes money, I think everyone suffers. But it can't change from the bottom up. Me, or Joe, or even Amazon, deciding to do things differently, to swim upstream instead of down, isn't going to change the world. It isn't going to even make a dent, I'm afraid.

Change needs to come from not only the top down, but from within as well. Now we're talking about shifting a whole cultural paradigm and have ventured far off the discussion of suffering indie books stores. But that's where it starts, and that's really the only place that could end it as well.

Eloheim and Veronica said...

I tried to post this twice yesterday, maybe the 3rd time will be the charm!

Looking into Google ebooks. The only thing I ever hear people say about Google ebooks is that they are hard to deal with. I would love to know more before I consider getting set up with them.

From my research:

They have two things going on.

1. The Google Books Partner Program enables publishers to promote their books on Google. Google scans the full text of participating publishers' titles so that Google users can see books that match the topics that they are searching on. When a user clicks on a book search result, they're taken to a Google-hosted web page displaying a scanned image of the relevant page from the book. Each page also contains multiple 'Buy This Book' links, allowing users to purchase the book from online retailers.

We may also show contextually-targeted Google AdWords ads on these pages. Publishers will receive a share of the revenue generated from ads appearing on their content.

There are many benefits to participating in Google Book Search. As a Google Book Search publisher, you can do the following:

Promote your book for free on Google
Increase book sales at traditional and online booksellers
Expand your reach to targeted customers

2. You list your book in their ebook catalog

Reseller Revenue Split" is forty five percent (45%) of the List Price For Google Editions sold through Authorized Resellers

is fifty-two percent (52%) of the List Price For Google Editions sold through the Google Services

You don't need an ISBN, they will assign one that you can only use on Google. They want PDF and EPUB.



Veronica
The Choice for Consciousness: Tools for Conscious Living, Vol. 1

The Homo Spiritus Sessions, Vol. 1, Vol. 2

Robert Bruce Thompson said...

Joe Konrath said...

Just out of curiosity, how does an ass clown differ from a garden-variety troll?

A troll stirs up trouble just because they're something wrong with them developmentally.

An ass clown reads a long, multi-layered blog post, replies to one specific detail (ignoring the rest), and then uses it as a launching point for their own, skewed agenda, spewing out their idea of reality in a disrespectful way.

Then they're genuinely insulted when someone calls them on it.

If we ever run into each other, Robert, I'm the happiest guy you'll ever meet. Nothing offends me. Nothing angers me. I've bought drinks for people who have called me "asshole" to my face.

Life is too short to take this seriously. But that doesn't mean I have to suffer fools, especially in my house.

My blog is my house. Behave. Respect the host. Or take your ass clowning elsewhere.


Ah, so an ass clown is to a troll as a troll is to a human being.

Yeah, I suspect we'd get along fine. The last time anyone offended me was more than 30 years ago, and the guy was trying to beat on me with a 2X4 at the time.

David Gaughran said...

re Google Books

Just a quick note to say it's only open to US writers (as per their website).

Walter Knight said...

TO: Stephen Leather

No sir, do not let your tough guy detective say "Ass Clown" when making an arrest. If anyone says "ass clown" out in the 'Hood, they would get a beatdown. Sorry Joe.

It would be like my little boy wearing dino pajamas to school. He'd get a wedgy for sure.

Rob said...

I think it's really sad when people start groups like this. Every time somebody gets ahead on their own talent there will always be somebody to smack them down. Don't let it get to you. I've read several of your books already on my kindle. And though I may not like them all, I like them enough to buy them and keep them. Keep doing what you do konrath. You have my support and I applaud you for your list of works already produced. :)

Anonymous said...

I'm confused (shocking I know) so what do indie book stores want that indie writers can give them?

I don't know how to turn the tide of consumerism beyond awareness. Is there something else?

David Gaughran said...

Joe listed a few in his post.

But on a personal level, writers are readers first.

When I have the money I spend the few dollars and get the book from a local, independent bookshop. I try and encourage my friends to do likewise.

I do this because I love indie bookshops. I love the knowledgeable staff, the interesting, outside mainstream, picks. I love the atmosphere. I love the way they have championed unpopular authors and kept their books on their shelf when they weren't selling until they did.

If indie booksellers started boycotting indie authors I wouldn't feel like spending the extra money to support them.

jtplayer said...

One thing's for sure, if we don't buy from our local stores, eventually they will go away.

And while some of you may see a time saving or convenience aspect to buying online, ask yourselves, how would you feel if this was the only way to make your purchases?

I for one enjoy being able to walk into a store and see and hold the physical object in my hand, pick it out off the shelf, see the other options right there for comparison. You cannot replicate that experience buying stuff from a computer screen. IMO.

Sure, life is complicated and busy and tedious at times, and shopping can be a real drag. But not always. Also, you never really appreciate something until it's gone for good.

Blake Crouch said...

"Like all business environments there are always repercussions for the decisions that are taken. As the publishing business continues to evolve I predict there will be more of what we are seeing concerning Indies with original ebook authors and not less. It is a matter of survival and economics as I point out above."

Robert - thanks for chiming in...good points...I agree with your take on the survival instinct of the indies and their current model not being workable for selling ebooks. I guess my feeling is that because ebooks are fast becoming the preferred format, if the indie stores want to survive they have got to figure out how to get a piece of that pie. If they have nothing to offer what will soon be the vast majority of potential customers (i.e. those who read on e-readers of some sort) they aren't going to make it. And of course they know this, but there doesn't appear to be any meaningful attempt yet to stop what's coming. Since I release my own work, this means that it won't show up in indie stores. Fine. I wish it were different, but I am more creatively and financially satisfied now than I ever was, including when my hardcovers from SMP were in some indies, because I'm reaching more readers. The indies have a lot more incentive to adapt a model where they can profitably sell my work, than I do worrying about getting my books on their shelves. I want the indies to survive, but I will be writing and publishing no matter what happens. Their survival is contingent on figuring out how to bring ebooks to their customers. It isn't writers like Konrath and me who are a threat to them....it's technology. If they're clinging to the hope that people will still be purchasing $26.95 hardcovers in droves five years from now, the future is looking pretty bleak for them. I want them to make it, and not because I need them, but because I love what they're about and what they stand for.

Veronica said...

I'm still looking into this Google books thing.....

A major indie book store in the next County is Book Passage.

I just looked up how Book Passage and Google Books integrate.

You have to have a gmail account AND an account at the bookstore.

There must be a better solution than this to bring indies and ebooks together. One-click Kindle purchasing has never looked easier!

http://bookpassage.com/ebooks

Veronica
The Choice for Consciousness: Tools for Conscious Living, Vol. 1

The Homo Spiritus Sessions, Vol. 1, Vol. 2

JSWolf said...

Please show me Stirred and Shaken in ePub.

I'm working on it.


Are these ePub editions going to be available direct from you or some other site? Please don't go with Smashwords. Their way of converting from Word to ePub makes very poor code under the hood. Any idea how long it may take to get your two most recent books in ePub?

Knowing that I'll be able to get them direct in ePub without spending any money at Amazon would prompt me to start buying your books now in hopes that by the time I've caught up, I can get the last two in ePub.

JA Konrath said...

Remember that Shaken and Stirred are DRM free. So you can buy the Kindle versions and convert them to epub yourself using various free software programs.

Veronica said...

I sell epubs from my site and it only costs me the Pay Pal fee. I get more orders that way that I do from all other sites combined.

Now, I would like that to change, as the numbers aren't huge. But, it's still a fact.

David Gaughran said...

@Veronica

How much does it cost to set up the shopping cart and all that, and how much do PayPal take per transaction?

Dave

Veronica said...

@David

That's a bigger question than I might have time to answer just now as I have a meeting in 15 minutes, but I will get started.

PP has (at least) two types of accounts. Regular and micro- payments. Micro-payments costs less in fees for transactions under $12. You can have both types of accounts, but the kicker is you must link them to different bank accounts. Grrr....

Anyway, that affects the fees.
I'm using my regular account and the fees are something like $0.30 cents per transaction plus 5%. CHEAP.

It would be even less if I wanted to take the time to open a new bank account and get my micro-payments account going. I haven't chosen to do that.

As far as the shopping cart thing goes....I am currently revamping my shopping cart set up. I have hundreds of products so it's a big deal.

However, if you only have a few items, you can do it for free (and easy) through PP buttons.

Log into PP, click on merchant services in the blue bar at the top, click on create buttons, click on buy now.

This will let you create a HTML button for your site. People click on the button, you get an email showing that a payment has been received, you then email the ebook to the customer.

That's a free (other than the PP fee) way to do it.

Now, PP has it's own shopping cart and I am sure there are a lot more options. This is just one option that I have used and it works well.

You must send the book to the customer yourself however.

If you want the sending out the book part automated, consider Payloadz.com. I have used them for years. It works great. You pay based on how many transactions you have. I'm pretty sure there is a free option with them as well.

On this page, the first button is a PP buy now button like I described above and the others are payloadz buttons.

http://eloheim.com/eloheim-recordings/archived-meetings-2011/

You can see how I have it set up for books on my order page: http://eloheim.com/books/


Now that page is a mess. Like I said, I have a programmer creating a whole new look for my shopping area, but it gives you a sense of what the PP/Payloadz buttons look like.

Wow, gotta dash. I'm happy to answer questions. I will check in later.

Veronica

JSWolf said...

Remember that Shaken and Stirred are DRM free. So you can buy the Kindle versions and convert them to epub yourself using various free software programs.

I do know I can do that. But I'd rather not as I don't buy eBooks from Amazon. I prefer not to give my money to them for any exclusive eBooks. It's the principle of the matter. I'm not going to say to Amazon that it is OK if you sell these eBooks and nobody else can. So unless there is an alternative, I can't be purchasing from Amazon. Also, the hassle of having to fix the sometimes really messy code underneath an AZW file is not always worth my time.

If it's a properly made ePub, I don't mind using my time to fix it so it looks how I want as that's not difficult.

David Gaughran said...

@Veronica

Thank you very much for that detailed answer. I will save this for when I look into it later in the summer.

Dave

Jon Olson said...

I think that Joe is taking personally what is essentially a business fight. Why should bookstores want to help Amazon, when Amazon is eating their lunch? Why should they stock Thomas & Mercer, an Amazon imprint, and help the enemy? It's not about Joe Konrath, as important as he is to the kindle world.

Jon Olson
The Petoskey Stone

JSWolf said...

Joe should be just as important to people who use a Sony Reader or a nook as he is to people who use a Kindle. But why seemingly cut off some of your readers?

Anonymous said...

There is a very good indie bookstore a mile from my house. I'd never been into it until I had a kindle, and something I wanted to read had no kindle version. So oddly, my kindle prompted the visit.

I went there last week to buy Howie Carr's new hardcover, Hitman. It cost me $23.00. It's available on Amazon for $10.88.

If I owned an indie bookstore, I'd devote a space in my store to promoting well-vetted, well-reviewed epubbed books, and hawking their paper versions. I'd reach out to indie authors and build my store brand as a place that embraces the revolution.

Joe - the idea that your anonymous antagonist would apply the work "sanctimonious" to you of all people - considering his own language - really is a laffer.

CJ said...

I prefer print books.

kathleen shoop said...

@stephen leather--i personally love the juxtaposition of a battle-tested officer screaming "get down ass-clown!" to the hard core gangstas of NYC! Love it!

@James--are there other library e-vendors than Overdrive?

@PJ Lincoln--"all I've ever wanted is a chance to get my stuff in front of readers...and now I get to keep on trying." Yes, I agree, that is what has changed, that's what allows all authors a seat at the table...even if some think it's the kids' table. And, maybe it is...but it's an opportunity and that's priceless to me. I guess we're at least in the house now???

kshoop.com
The Last Letter

Unknown said...

I good part of the reason I stopped going to indie book stores, or for that matter the big box stores, is because they didn't always (most of the time unless it was a new release on somebodies best seller list) have what I was looking for. I started shopping Amazon, because they ALWAYS had what I was looking for. It's really good of the indies to make it national news that they aren't even going to attempt to carry what I am looking for. Saves me wandering into their stores when I do happen to be in the neighborhood....

Jude Hardin said...

Forgive my ignorance but is "ass clown" a genuine American insult or is it used because Blogger bans swearwords?

If Blogger bans swearwords, then I'm in allkindsamuhfuggin trouble.

Mari Stroud said...

I thought that was a reasoned, classy response from both you and Mr. Crouch. I'm afraid that I'm still Amazon-friendly after reading through the comments (I certainly can't support indie bookstores through not being published at all), but at least I now have a better understanding of what the opposition to it is.

If we're talking catchy insults, I'm personally fond of "ass hat", mostly because it allows for the possibility of "ass haberdashery." Words are fun.

Unknown said...

Learn new things everyday. I don't know what will work or won't, but at least you come with a plan.

Anonymous said...

"Jon Olson said...
I think that Joe is taking personally what is essentially a business fight. Why should bookstores want to help Amazon, when Amazon is eating their lunch? Why should they stock Thomas & Mercer, an Amazon imprint, and help the enemy? It's not about Joe Konrath, as important as he is to the kindle world. "

Yep. You can't piss where you play and expect to have no repercussions down the line.

Joe spent years dissing bookstores and promoting Amazon - and now they're dissing right back. Whether it's right or wrong it's within their rights to do so, as it was with Joe blowing off commercial publishing and going solo/selling to Amazon.

Considering how much money Joe keeps saying he makes, I don't think anyone'll be holding a bake sale for him anytime soon.

It may be worth taking note, however - Amanda Hocking blew off Amazon's offer to print her books 'cause they wanted Kindle-exclusivity. SMP offered less money but ebooks in multiple formats.

It's a business decision that probably won't affect anyone other than a handful of consumers. But it gets Amazon and Joe publicity and that's the name of the game these days.

If I ran a B&N store or any bookstore why would I stock Amazon books? And if Joe et al are right and bookstores are dying, what's the fuss all about?

JA Konrath said...

Joe spent years dissing bookstore

Show me a single example of me dissing bookstores.

Surely there will be ample quotes to choose from, since I spent "years" doing so.

Oh, wait. You can't.

Because I've never dissed a single bookstore, ever.

I've warned of their demise, and compared them to the record stores that no longer exist.

But diss? You got the wrong guy. I've done nothing put love bookstores my whole life.

JA Konrath said...

I prefer print books.

I prefer 8-track tapes.

Kinda tough to find these days, though.

Unknown said...

"I prefer print books."

I like mine carved in stone, unfortunately I have to go to the graveyard to find them anymore....

Unknown said...

This is the first I've heard of this boycott as well, and like you, I'm saddened by it. I haven't read any of your books, but I'm pleased with your response on this blog--very professional. Found you through a link on Facebook!

Anonymous said...

you may "love bookstores" but you're actively contributing to their demise with your push to ebooks.

either way, no bookstore is obligated to carry your books from Amazon, period. They're not going to stock your print book on their shelves when the money goes to the very competition that's putting them out of business.

I'm sure you'll still be rich and famous and able to write all day, blah blah blah. So what's the big deal? You've already declared print books as dead and bookstores as obsolete and now you're throwing a temper tantrum 'cause the bookstores don't want to add to your coffers?

Amazon wants to be a publisher, they'll have to deal with the ups and downs.

And really, it's not about you. It's about the authors who are considering submitting to Amazon's print publishing and their income.

Amanda Hocking blew off Amazon because they demanded exclusivity.

I don't think she'll be the only one in the future who ducks the Amazon juggernaut and decides to go with a commercial publisher that'll get her print books into B&N and other bookstores.

Robert Bruce Thompson said...

Anonymous said...

you may "love bookstores" but you're actively contributing to their demise with your push to ebooks.


Bookstores' business model is obsolete. Ebooks have arrived, and nothing is going to change that. Blaming Joe or other indie authors for choosing to go where the money is is ridiculous. In effect, what you're doing is asking Joe to give up a substantial part of his income to subsidize these dinosaurs, which are doomed anyway.

either way, no bookstore is obligated to carry your books from Amazon, period. They're not going to stock your print book on their shelves when the money goes to the very competition that's putting them out of business.

I'm sure you'll still be rich and famous and able to write all day, blah blah blah. So what's the big deal? You've already declared print books as dead and bookstores as obsolete and now you're throwing a temper tantrum 'cause the bookstores don't want to add to your coffers?


Joe's not throwing a temper tantrum. He was attempting to show indie bookstores how they might hang on a bit longer. Frankly, I think Joe is wrong. I don't think there's anything indie bookstores can do to survive even medium-term. Their cost structures are simply so high that there's no way they can compete.

Amazon wants to be a publisher, they'll have to deal with the ups and downs.

And really, it's not about you. It's about the authors who are considering submitting to Amazon's print publishing and their income.


So you want these authors to sign on to the obsolete old business model and take a hit to their income? Indie bookstores close every week. Before long, there won't be more than a handful left in business. Why would any author do something against his own self-interest to prop up a business model that's on the way out?

Amanda Hocking blew off Amazon because they demanded exclusivity.

I don't think she'll be the only one in the future who ducks the Amazon juggernaut and decides to go with a commercial publisher that'll get her print books into B&N and other bookstores.


What's your source for this? I admit that I don't read Amanda's blog regularly, but I was under the impression from what I had read there that she'd intentionally taken an earnings hit to get her name in front of readers who hadn't yet made the transition to ebooks.

As far as I know, this is a one-time deal on Amanda's part. She intends to continue taking advantage of ebook sales on Amazon and elsewhere for her other titles, existing and new.

Phil Hall said...

They're doing this out of the "big two" mistakes any business can make: stupidity and greed. This decision WILL come to bite them in the ass. Amazon is new to the publishing game, yes; however, they are a powerhouse already--and when they put their considerable might behind something it tends to do well. Very well, in fact.

Let the stores whine and moan, they will have no choice soon but to come crawling back on their knees. You'll see.

It seems to me that they believe that if the "big 6" refuse a novel then that novel "just should not be published." There they are, going off and being the overly-protective "gate keeper" again. A duty they aren't very well suited for and one that, frankly, the buying public could well do without.

In the end, they will have to see the light--and you'll be there already, with outstretched arms, ready to welcome them. This is the 21st century, they need to get with the program.

wannabuy said...

@JT:"Buying diapers from your local store does not take away from your sleep time or kid time. Not now, 10 years ago, or even 20 years ago. "
Totally disagree. I know dozens of people who buy online to save time. For example, we had a last minute invite to Disneyland yesterday. There was no way we could have done it if we had to take the time to go shopping brick and mortar.

Discussions bout 'saving time' via shopping online are just too common among parents of young (infant and toddler) kids. Heck, two of the other moms at Disneyland pointed out that if they couldn't shop while waiting in line, they wouldn't have been able to go!

Now price mattes, when one mom found a great baby-carrier on sale (now sold out), it was amusing seeing the smartphones being whipped out by total strangers in line (click and sold...). ;)

This saved us trips to four or five stores. That is several hours of time. :) It gave us the time to stick around and introduce our older child to fireworks. :)

Smartphones and tablets will change retail just as ereaders have changed book buying. The change will accelerate. The number of tablets out there is trivial. When there are a few hundred million 'in the wild,' what I'm discussing will be far more obvious. :)

Neil

Unknown said...

"Amanda Hocking blew off Amazon because they demanded exclusivity."

I don't get this? According to Amanda Hocking, “I do not want to spend 40 hours a week handling e-mails, formatting covers, finding editors, etc. Right now, being me is a full-time corporation." And as for exclusivity, are you implying that St. Martins is going to let other publishers issue her books?

JA Konrath said...

Ditto what Robwrt said.

As for Hocking, signing with Amazon at the time woyld have meant no Nook, Apple, or Sony sales.

Which is what my deal for Stirred is like, at this time. My hope is Amazon sells epub eventually. But until then, the Amazon deal does enough good for me to not worry about exclusivity.

wannabuy said...

@Joe:"the Amazon deal does enough good for me to not worry about exclusivity."

Thanks for the perspective.

Question: Do you know which 'big chain' stores your books will end up at? Will you gain that precious shelf space at Walgreens? ;)

Neil

Selena Kitt said...

Will you gain that precious shelf space at Walgreens? ;)

Did you mean Walmart? :)

Unknown said...

@ wannabe/neil, ": Do you know which 'big chain' stores your books will end up at? Will you gain that precious shelf space at Walgreens?"

Does any author? Will there be big chain stores? Does Walgreen's sell books? Mine doesn't. Inquiring minds want to know. Seems to me that writer write, distributor distribute and readers read.

jtplayer said...

Time management Neil, that's what it's all about.

And you don't need the interwebs to effectively manage your time.

How did you get it done prior to smart phones and tablets and online retailers?

Btw...the "baby carrier" part makes no sense.

kathleen shoop said...

@robert Yes! Our Walgreens sells books. I was thinking of asking my local Walgreens manager if he'll carry my book...it's a self-pubbed job, so who knows! Did you get that Chinese food yet? If so, send my left-overs my way.

Unknown said...

@Kathleen, one slightluy nibbled on egg roll coming yur way. I used up all the hot mustard sauce tho' so you'll have to improvise.My Walgreen's (we have two in my neck of the woods in Portland's suburbs) only occasionally has books at all and they are the Dollar Store variety. I've found some good books, but they are usually by authors you never heard of in the states. I'm thinkin' Walgreen's, like Walmart, only carries books distributed by the Big Houses. If it's Patterson or King or featured on Oprah, you might get it, but they won't carry any Indie authors or small publishers books

Robert Bidinotto said...

If Indie bookstores want to survive, then -- in addition to those offered by Joe and Blake -- here are a few suggestions that I would employ if I owned one:

1. Turn your physical location into an advantage, rather than a liability. Change from being just another warehouse for books, into becoming a constant meeting place for authors and their fans.

This expands on the point #3 by Blake and Joe. There is a BIG niche market of fans who want to meet their favorite authors -- including local authors. I know fans (self included) who would drive many miles to spend time with their favorite writers.

So, transform your store into a literary meeting place -- not just in the evenings, but all day -- where authors meet with their fans. It benefits authors by cementing their bond with readers and peddling their wares. It obviously benefits readers. And, if the stores charged a small cover fee ($5?) for the event, as well as sell the author's books (including POD books on consignment), that would keep the lights on and pay the hired help.

Authors can also be invited to hold workshops about writing, self-publishing, etc. The authors could charge a fee, and the bookstore could take a cut.

In conjunction with this,

2. Embrace indie titles, rather than banishing them. Many readers love novelty in novels (and nonfiction). They can buy Big6 bestsellers everywhere. But where can they get edgy, unusual, provocative, or unsung titles? Not in Barnes & Noble. And who would know about them?

So, become known as THE place that stocks and advises readers about indie titles.

3. Embrace ebooks. Sell ereaders. Hold classes for potential buyers explaining the differences among them and how to use them most effectively.

4. Partner. If all indie stores in a region worked together, they could coordinate their calendars of events so that they could run "tours" of authors among the various member stores in nearby towns. "Meet Author X at 10 a.m. in Store A." "Meet Author X at 1 p.m. in Store B." "Meet Author X at 7 p.m. in Store C." Advantage for the author: He can sell lots of books and meet lots of fans in a given region during a short period of time. Advantage for stores: a constant flow of interesting authors.

Will ideas like this save indie stores? I don't know. But it's clear their current business model won't work much longer. Either they transform themselves to embrace the current customer-driven changes, or they won't survive. That's the message they need to confront. Throwing temper tantrums against indie authors such as Joe Konrath is just trying to kill the messenger.

David Gaughran said...

@Robert Bidinotto - Great suggesions. I'll add one if I may.

5. Take your advantages online.

List all the reasons why people like your store then replicate those on your website.

* Do people pay a few bucks extra per title because they like to hang out there and talk to other knowledgeable readers? Then build a forum, a facebook page, a twitter page and get the conversation started. As you well know, if it's somewhere people like to hang out, they are more likely to shop there too.

* Do people come to your store to meet interesting authors? Have an online Q & A.

* Do people shop there because of your taste in books? Then don't just have the standard Google e-book storefront. Curate your selection. Show me the books you think are good.

Kathleen shoop said...

@Robert-- even a nibbled eggroll works for me! Our Walgreens has an extensive book section--Big-time publishers of course and also some local history books (western Pennsylvanians love to read about their towns!) and those books are what gave me the idea to ask. We'll see!

W. Dean said...

I have to agree with what Robert Bruce Thomson said regarding Anonymous’ beef with Joe over the Amazon book deal. I’ll only add that I sympathize with Anonymous’ position on a purely human level, but I don’t see what Anonymous, as an indie bookseller, expects Joe or other indie authors to do. It seems to me like he’s asking them to forestall or forsake their writing careers on the implausible grounds that it might keep indie bookstores afloat.

Leave Joe aside for a moment and consider what he’s asking of a struggling writer, whom we’ll call “John.” John works at minimum wage in a coffee shop by day and writes novels by night. He hasn’t got a book deal from a legacy publisher or even an agent, but he’s got three novels written and proofed. He decides to try his luck in the e-publishing market because he’s got nothing to lose.

Anonymous’ response to this move seems to be that John should not turn his novels into e-books and that he should keep slogging java at the coffee shop until he gets a book deal that may never come. Why? Because Amazon competes with Anonymous and Anonymous may someday, in the hypothetical future, stock John’s books on his shelves if he thinks he can sell them. To say this is a lot to expect of John is to define “understatement.”

Of course, I might be wrong on this last point. Maybe Anonymous is guaranteeing that he will stock every title from every writer published by a legacy publisher who requests some shelf space.

But I think we all know how much faith we could put in that promise, because, like everyone else, indie bookstores are in the making money business, not the giving shelf space to struggling writers business. So, not only does Anonymous want John to sacrifice himself (to save Anonymous’ bacon), he can’t even realistically offer him anything in return.

Again, I do sympathize with the indie bookstores’ situation. It sucks being on the losing end of technological change. But a strategy that relies on demanding that others take a hit to their wallets or give up their livelihoods altogether to save yours is a pretty weak one, especially when you can’t really offer them a decent alternative.

W. Dean said...

According to “jtplayer,” the only people who shop on line are cheap tax-evaders, lazy bums and those lacking time management skills. I had no idea until now! What's more, I’m amazed at how much knowledge you have about others’ lives and about how they should live. This mighty burden of wisdom must be hard to bear sometimes…

Anonymous said...

Different anon here. I can only come at this from one perspective: reader. And as I reader all I can say is that if I go into a bookstore after a certain title and am told that not only do they not have it, but they will not order it for me either, I'm not going to simply buy something else. I'm going to leave that store, find the book from someone who wants my money, and likely never darken that door again.

jtplayer said...

"This mighty burden of wisdom must be hard to bear sometimes…"

Damn, you're a funny guy Dean.

Have a great day dude.

David Gaughran said...

Would anyone like a nice cup of tea?

Robert Bidinotto said...

@ JTPlayer: What W.Dean said. You've been insulting to many of the people who do online shopping.

Some things are easier and more convenient to buy at a store. But many things are not, and it makes huge sense to shop for them online. Such as books.

If you have the time and gas money (at $4 per gallon) to flit all over town looking for stuff you want, great. Many people don't. And they aren't "lazy" for shopping online. In fact, maybe they're a lot busier than you seem to be.

Unknown said...

@ david, depends. You wouldn't have a generous dram of a peaty, amberish liguid to add, would you?

David Gaughran said...

@Robert Carraher

I think I've heard of that.

jtplayer said...

"You've been insulting to many of the people who do online shopping."

No, I have not been doing that. You just have a very thin skin.

Just like many others around here.

But that's ok man. You have yourself a great, busy day, OK?

Scott Gordon said...

It's not up to the artist to subsidize the distribution channel. You've got to find new ways to entice customers to your store, and leverage your physical presence in the community.

At one time, Amazon was small potatoes. They adapted, and became the behemoth they are now. In some ways, you contributed to their ascension. All this time, what has been preventing you from selling online? Beat them at their own game. Seriously. Take your business online.

In the end, you simply didn't adapt. Fight technology and it will bury you. E-books are the revolution. You should be partnering with the quality indie authors. It may be more work up front, but it will give your store the diversity it needs. You simply cannot proceed in a business-as-usual-manner anymore.

A similar thing happened with the music industry. Why is Apple, a computer company, one of the largest distributors of music?

Also, what did movie theaters do when needed to fill their auditoriums? Well, they got bailed out by James Cameron's Avatar and began selling the 3D experience--something you can't get anywhere else.

As others have stated, you can't demonize the artist and offer nothing in return. In the end, you rely on their work to make money. Artists have options and suddenly you don't like it? Well, too bad. They've suffered for decades under an unfair system plagued by politics. It's time for the artists to get their fair share.

Robert Bidinotto said...

JTPlayer wrote:

...driving a few miles down the street, holding in my hands the object I want to purchase, and taking it home with me a few minutes later is pretty damn easy too.

Unless of course the purchaser is a hopelessly lazy slob.


That's a deliberate insult to online buyers. And you know it.

And now, because I have a chapter to finish this afternoon, I'll leave you to your continued condescending, rationalizing, and expeditions to Walmart.

jtplayer said...

"That's a deliberate insult to online buyers. And you know it."

Well gee Bob, I guess you missed the part where I was challenged earlier on that statement and made the following comment:

"Apologies to all. I was only trying to be humorous, not disrespectful. Fail for me ;-)"

So you go and finish that chapter dude, and while you're at it, unbunch your panties, 'cause you're being just a little bit reactionary bro.

pat said...

Far too many comments to read all of them, but here's the reality of a new bookseller*. *new in the sense I'm opening a store I own. I've been in the business for 30 years.

As in ALL businesses competition comes in many forms, and small businesses will be crushed by big businesses, as well as other small businesses. Amazon uses bad practices in it's drive to overtake publishers and booksellers. That's part of competition. Shipping and discounts are part of the game, but sales tax should be fair, and government must intercede, regardless of it's size.

Bookstores will thrive. I'm opening, another opened in January in the area, and a third will open soon. I totally disagree with Karger, but there are people who feel that way, and they have a right to their opinion.

My bookstore has Google ebooks on the website. I was one of the first to sign up. I have a large sign advertising it in the store and wifi for downloads. I even put a QR-code sign by the street, so smartcard users can look up current information on the store or download a book. Yes, there are safe pull offs.

I take the attitude that it's all about the reading experience, not the media. Those that adapt will thrive. Those that don't will close. I'm sure some bookstores will resent authors going to Amazon. You need to do what you have to in order to earn a living. So do I, but those goals are not mutually exclusive. I know a bookstore that will boycott authors who are exclusive to Amazon, because it would be like promoting an author, but telling them to buy the book at B&N.

The anger is probably the pricing. I can get your books through Ingram distributors, but I have to charge full price to cover costs. Amazon sells it for 15% less than what I pay Ingram. But that's the case for a lot of books. If I can get your books, I'd be happy to promote you with a booksigning and handselling. As for Jude Hardin, I'm almost begging authors to come to my store. This is also a shout out to any author who can get to my store.

CreateSpace is a different matter. Ingram will carry a small quantity, and no more, so it's hard to promote an author's book. I understand that bookseller reaction. The boycotting bookseller I mentioned, does so when an author promotes only Amazon, and not independents on their website or advertising.

It's an interesting point in literary history, and nothing is certain. Good luck to you.

Patrick
Novel Places

Ursula said...

Man, are you kidding me? All I can think of after reading about the indie boycot is like Animal Farm but real life. I'm really sorry to hear this, and also think it's pretty lame.

On the flip side, I think the new Amazon imprint is fab, and good for you for hooking up with them. Amazon's main revolution is in blowing open the distribution channels. the relationship works well digitally, stands to reason one just as satisfying for all involved can come from print.

wannabuy said...

The side topic makes me realize how tough the indie bookstores have it. It is becoming too convenient to buy non food items online...

I don't want Joe Boycotted. He isn't the indie bookstores enemy. Technology is shifting. I see Pat and his store is adapting. I wish all indie bookstores well.

@Selena:"But there IS something about your "local buying" "
100% agree. We use online to bypass Costco, target, Walgreens, etc. ;) Not the farmers market. Alas, the local bookstore that I loved was put out of business an eon ago by Crown books. :(

@JTPlayer:"Time management Neil, that's what it's all about."
Yep. Online shopping is just one more tool. As we were taught in engineering school, lazy=efficient. ;)

How I did it before... doesn't matter; that was BC (before Children). I gained back that day or two a month and no point going back.

@JTPlayer:"Btw...the "baby carrier" part makes no sense."
We were carrying our infant or toddler (alternating which kid) in a new style 'baby backpack' (that also can be worn on the front). It is unusually high quality and easy to re-configure. Interested parents asked for the web site and immediately bought it while waiting in line at Disney. :) We did the same with a better 'mommy clip,' ebooks, mens running shoes, kids clothes, etc. We're a friendly well organized pack... :)

Here is a thought: No one (I know) ever brought a laptop to Disney; yet every family had either a large form factor Android, IPad, Nook(great for kids books) or Kindle with them (usually 2+ devices that doubled as the cameras). That included most of the parents 'snatching' a 20 minute 'R&R' read while other parents herded the pack.

1st company to have a great outdoor ereader, camera/video, web browser, SD card connect (to trade videos), and easy upload to facebook (for grandma) of photos... I know of a target market that will buy them. ;)

Neil

James said...

>@James--are there other
>library e-vendors than
>Overdrive?

Yes, but they don't have the selection of bestselling fiction that Overdrive offers. NetLibrary, for example, has been selling libraries access to e-books for years, but most of their selection was non-fiction. It was a good deal (one price to subscribe for access to ALL the books), but fiction is what most library patrons want.

There are a couple of interesting competitors on the horizon, though (probably debuting this summer or fall). It's going to be interesting to see how their programs work.

To give you an idea of how Overdrive works, libraries have to pay a certain dollar amount to simply be part of their program, and then pay for access to each book individually. If you have a very tiny library, the "buy in cost" is generally around $3,000/year. For mid-sized libraries, it's closer to $8,000. I don't know what it is for the big guys.

After you put out that money, you have to pay for access to each individual title. That access can run up to 10 times or more than buying a hardback of the title.

There are some consortial deals that you can swing, with lots of libraries each contributing to the pool of available ebooks, but the initial cost of entry is simply too high for many libraries.

There are a lot of libraries out there that have not had a materials budget for a couple of years, and many more that have seen their budget cut severely. That initial $3,000-$8,000 can be a very big chunk of the "new book" money a small library has each year.

For example, my library is fairly well funded for one of it's size in our area, but buying into Overdrive as part of a consortium and adding another dozen books or so would eat up 20% of my yearly "materials" budget (books, DVDs, audiobooks, etc.). We have patrons who want ebooks, but I can't justify giving up that percentage of my budget for less than 5% of my patrons.

Now Harper Collins is telling Overdrive that they want to limit the number of circulations of their ebooks to 26, after which the libraries have to re-purchase access. They claim that libraries have to replace most print versions of books after 26 or so circulations, which simply isn't true. We have books that have circulated many hundreds of times and are still in acceptable shape.

Overdrive also does audiobooks and streaming movies. For what it costs to get a single streaming movie from them, I could easily buy 10 or more copies of that movie on DVD.

Though library patrons who use ebooks are enthusiastic about them, the reality in the U.S. is that MOST patrons still prefer print books, and probably will, for quite some time. We still have patrons who worry that we might get rid of books on tape and VHS tapes, believe it or not.

David Gaughran said...

Dean Wesley Smith has an excellent idea over on his blog today about how indie writers and indie booksellers could do business together.

Essentially, it's selling e-books in-store as gift cards. It's very clever.

Check it out:

http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=4154

Marcel said...

Essentially, it's selling e-books in-store as gift cards. It's very clever.

Wow, that's a huge understatement. Joe, you have to write your own article pointing this out - not a lot of people read all comments like me :P The idea is fantastic.

Rob said...

Has anyone seen this article?
It's about how one independent book store is making money by printing ebooks in-store.

Rob said...

Sorry!

Here's the link to the article I mentioned in my previous post.

http://blogs.forbes.com/erikamorphy/2011/05/24/independent-bookstore-goes-up-against-amazon-this-time-it-turns-out-differently/

Ender Chadwick said...

Rob said: "Has anyone seen this article?
It's about how one independent book store is making money by printing ebooks in-store.
http://blogs.forbes.com/erikamorphy/2011/05/24/independent-bookstore-goes-up-against-amazon-this-time-it-turns-out-differently/

I think all bookstores are going to need to be going this route to survive.

Rick Saenz said...

Here's Dean Wesley Smith's summary of his ebook-as-gift-card idea:

"The new future of books is almost here. Books on gift cards. But they won’t be called “gift cards.” They will be called “books.”

"Electronic books in a physical product, for the same price, can now get into brick-and-mortar bookstores and make bookstores a great mark-up. Customers can easily buy they, give them as gifts, even wrap them up as stocking-stuffers. It is easy for any publisher of any size to do.

"Gift Card Books take up less of the very expensive bookstore shelf room. You can get a hundred of these in the space of ten paperback books. If we standardize the size of the cards, imagine in ten years parts of every bookstore being like a record store, with bins of books we can just thumb through like we thumb through albums."

My question: why exactly am I in this "bookstore" in the first place?

Nancy Beck said...

@Rob - Thanks for the link.

I think it's an awesome idea. :-)

Dick Hartzell said...

Just a few obvious points:

1) Amazon's destructive innovation when it introduced the Kindle was wireless ordering. (The Sony Reader, which preceded the Amazon Kindle, could have been the ereader to beat if Sony had adopted this revolutionary idea first.) It's the convenience, stupid.

2) For this painfully simple reason over the next 10 to 20 years most brick-and-mortar booksellers, indie or not, are doomed. It isn't going to matter how ingenious they are in marketing and merchandising themselves (or how infectiously enthusiastic their clerks are about books) -- the mere fact that you'll have to drive, take a bus, or walk to them to buy a book will finish them off. I wish it weren't the case, but it is.

3) I don't blame Joe Konrath for wanting to make a good -- or perhaps I should say better -- living as a writer, but if he thinks any idea he (or others) may come up with will save most of the indie bookstores he loves ... he's kidding himself.

The trend toward ebooks and ereaders has obvious advantages beyond wireless ordering. The prospect of being able to find decades of previously out-of-print books, of easy keyword searchability, of generations of important new authors coming to the fore because they've done an end run around the publishers who act as gatekeepers -- these are exciting possibilities. But most of these possibilities will be realized with mobile devices. Convenience will win ... and the quaint, leisurely act of browsing in a bookstore will lose.

Robert Bruce Thompson said...

Richard Hartzell said...

2) For this painfully simple reason over the next 10 to 20 years most brick-and-mortar booksellers, indie or not, are doomed.


I agree with your points, but I think you're wildly optimistic about how long brick-and-mortar bookstores can last. With the rate of ereader adoption, I think most indies will be gone by 2012, and it wouldn't surprise me in the next couple of years to see B&N in Chapter 7 as well (excluding the Nook and B&N.com, of course, which will live on as a separate company).

That, of course, has huge implications for trad publishers as well. If their sales channels disappear, leaving only WalMart and Costco (and on-line sellers), how will they move enough books to stay in business? I think we see their answer already: slaughter the midlist and concentrate exclusively on a few dozen big-name authors. With their print business fast disappearing and their inability to compete in ebooks, things look pretty dim for the big traditional publishers.

Maryann Guberman said...

I find this interesting but ... in searching for the source of the subject, I find nothing. I'd like to know WHICH bookstores are boycotting. Surely we'd all like to boycott them.

Anonymous said...

Explorer said...
I find this interesting but ... in searching for the source of the subject, I find nothing. I'd like to know WHICH bookstores are boycotting. Surely we'd all like to boycott them.

****

don't confuse the issue with facts.

Sharper13x said...

Richard Hartzell said...

"...the mere fact that you'll have to drive, take a bus, or walk to them to buy a book will finish them off. I wish it weren't the case, but it is."

I agree with this. The current model is unsustainable.

I think that the real trick for brick and mortar will be to make there space an attractive and popular place to be. For LOTS of people.

If they can't make their stores an actual destination for locals, a regular stop, even a hang out... they just can't survive by selling products that are easier and cheaper to get by staying home.

That said, the more people become ingrained in living their lives online, with online friends and online conversations, the more and more need a rises for places to go where you can meet real people. As it stands, "going out" for many people still involves exchanging one screen of electronic contact for another (at a movie or a sports bar).

A bookstore can still take advantage of something the internet also does quite well - it can bring together people of similar interests. People LIKE that.

If I owned a book store, or were planning on opening one, I might take a page from the local bars who fill their space with HD TVs for sports fans - but try to pull in a different audience. I wouldn't put in TV's, but I might think about applying for a liquor license, opening late and staying open later, and having a steady parade of authors and speakers who come in after 7:30 pm. Encourage conversation about books and ideas over wine and cheese.

Hell, I'd go to a place like that once a week.

The point is, even the friendliest bookstore owner can't be friends with everybody in town. You need to create a reason for MANY, MANY people to go there, and go there fairly often.

Otherwise you run the risk of becoming just like the best place in town to have your turntable repaired. Which would be... lets just call it "unfrequented."

Sharper13x said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Robert Bidinotto said...

@ Stephen Harper: The ONE thing that a bookstore can uniquely offer book buyers is personal access to their favorite authors.

Think about it. Readers can buy their favorite books online, easier, cheaper, and (with ebooks) instantly. No competitive advantages there for brick-and-mortar stores.

And there's no reason for a reader to go into a bookstore to buy lattes, or to get wi-fi access to millions of books, or to sit with a latte in a stuffed chair and read. He can do that from lots of other places. Like, home.

There's a fundamental principle of marketing: To succeed, do what your competitor either cannot do, or WILL not do. The one thing that a strictly online bookseller like Amazon canNOT give the reader, and WON'T, is a truly personal connection with his favorite author, and a sense of community with other fans of that author.

That is THE competitive advantage that bookstores can have over Amazon and other online booksellers -- if they have the savvy to exploit it fully.

Is it enough of an advantage to sustain bookstores in the long haul? Perhaps, if they transform themselves into literary meeting places, rather than p-book warehouses. It would work even better if they unite to schedule authors on a traveling itinerary of such events, with stops at each member store.

Sure, many bookstores do some author events already, but it's usually haphazard and sporadic, with only a few appearances each week or month. To make this work, they should completely reinvent themselves as literary clubhouses. Maybe even with memberships, and special member benefits, as well as "cover charges" for author events.

Once they get readers in the doors to meet their favorite authors (or to attend workshops on all aspects of books and authors), then they can also sell them books and ereaders, too.

But as I see it, that's the only real competitive advantage they have.

Unknown said...

Stephen, I floated this idea about ten years ago and couldn't get any folowers, but I was in a small midwest town, too. I always loved the idea, Books, fire places, comfy chairs, chessboards, a bar, nice selection of wine and appitizers. Book signings, book clubs, readings. the walls, then, would have been book cases and photos and paintings of not just authors, but book covers, important critics and publishers. Today, I'd do it with maybe book trailers, book samples, etc...on Tv's screens, Book blogs, best seller lists displayed, excerpts searchable on monitors, eBook downloads. Authors drink for free! Wait, that could break you fast....

W. Dean said...

Robert Bruce Thompson & Richard Hartzell,

I don’t think the jig is up for indies. There is at least one technological and one economic reason for thinking that the e-book will not spell the end of bookstores. In fact, indie booksellers, in particular, may even thrive in the new environment.

1. The usual analogies between books and e-books and cassettes and CDs or typewriters and PCs are not perfect. CDs and PCs were better tools that did more things: they took over all the functions of the earlier technology and did more besides. But the media in this case (paper books and their vendors’ services) have a value that’s independent of the content (that is, the content of books).

A better analogy would be that between newspapers and radio news, and then radio news with television news. These technologies did not replace their predecessors because of the differences inherent in the new technology (even though each technology was supposed to take over the last at the time).

2. Economic analyses of Walmart’s effect on local retailers all show the same result: it wipes out those who sell the same things, but—and this is the important point—it does wonders for specialized mom and pop shops that cluster around it, because Walmart draws people in. Something similar may happen for indie bookstores, because Amazon and e-books might only wipe out chain bookstores.

Consider the fact that chain bookstores stand between Amazon (pure price and convenience, profit on the margins) and indie bookstores (specialty shops with customized personal service). This means that chains compete more closely with Amazon than indie bookstores do, because they’re both geared toward winning the price and convenience battle, whereas indies can only ever offer specialized service.

Taking 1 and 2 together, one outcome of the rise of Amazon and e-books is the death of the chain bookseller and the rejuvenation of indie bookstores. After all, Amazon cannot replicate the bricks and mortar establishment where you rub elbows with other readers, authors and books.

Robert Bidinotto said...

W.Dean said, "After all, Amazon cannot replicate the bricks and mortar establishment where you rub elbows with other readers, authors and books."

My point, exactly. Underscore that. If indie bookstores -- even chains -- took the FULL implications of that one sentence to heart, they'd see their possible path to salvation.

Anonymous said...

But that also assumes that us readers want to rub elbows with other readers/authors and frankly, I don't. I just want the book.

Robert Bidinotto said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Robert Bidinotto said...

@ anonymous: True. Many readers don't.

But many DO. Or they do in special cases, such as an appearance by a particularly favorite author. I've attended or witnessed quite a few packed author signings, featuring writers both famous and not. They do pull in lots of customers, whose arms are often laden with books for inscriptions. And many pick up books by other authors while they're there.

What would happen if bookstores ramped up such events, making them daily occurrences? And add workshops, reader discussion groups, and other similar draws?

You don't have to appeal to everyone to be successful. You only have to fulfill the interests of a decent-sized niche. And bookstores can definitely appeal to the niche of those readers who want to interact with authors and with each other.

Sharper13x said...

@ Robert Bidinotto

I think we are in agreement. I'm just saying to add booze to the equation and it could create a winner. Of course, getting a liquor license is one of the most difficult things to do, might be too much for a bookstore owner.

But like I said, if I were interested in opening a bookstore, I would be thinking hard about changing the expectations for customers. Simply because, as bookstores stand now, there aren't enough customers to keep them making money. And that situation will only get worse.

@Robert Carraher

Yes. Books, interesting guest speakers, board games (Risk!), Grown-ups, and alchohol. I'd go to that place at least once a week.

Anonymous said...

Link, please. I own a bookstore and I have not heard of any effort to boycott this author's books. I have heard, however, that he is a genius a self-promotion--the kind of genius who might, perhaps, take a couple of stray comments on a listserv and blow them up into a national boycott effort--just sayin'.

Link please. Let's see the boycott. I can't BELIEVE no one has asked for this yet. Show the boycott or say why you can't.

James said...

>I've attended or witnessed
>quite a few packed author
>signings, featuring writers
>both famous and not.

That is usually only the case for big-name authors, most of whom charge a lot of money to make appearances. Advertising isn't cheap, either. Even if everyone buys a book to get it autographed, it can be very difficult for a bookstore to break even monetarily on an event like that.

Author appearances just don't carry a lot of weight these days, unless they are very well known. People can interact with their favorite authors on blogs and such, and many sell autographed copies of items from their own websites. For many people, that's preferable to driving somewhere, standing in line, and getting maybe a minute to interact with the author.

If I owned an indie bookstore, I would be looking seriously at the Espresso Book Machine, and any similar technologies to come down the pipe. Having what is essentially a very fast printing press on site opens up a lot of possibilities.

Anonymous said...

"Anonymous said...
Link, please. I own a bookstore and I have not heard of any effort to boycott this author's books. I have heard, however, that he is a genius a self-promotion--the kind of genius who might, perhaps, take a couple of stray comments on a listserv and blow them up into a national boycott effort--just sayin'.

Link please. Let's see the boycott. I can't BELIEVE no one has asked for this yet. Show the boycott or say why you can't."

The lack of any links or facts seem to stand on their own. Add in that this was supposedly said on a Yahoo group (and presumably not meant for the public to see) adds up to just more cheap promotion tricks.

All this will do is make supporters wary of ALL indie bookstores, prompting the opposite response to what Joe wants... or is it...

Robert Bruce Thompson said...

Anonymous said...

Link, please. I own a bookstore and I have not heard of any effort to boycott this author's books. I have heard, however, that he is a genius a self-promotion--the kind of genius who might, perhaps, take a couple of stray comments on a listserv and blow them up into a national boycott effort--just sayin'.

Link please. Let's see the boycott. I can't BELIEVE no one has asked for this yet. Show the boycott or say why you can't.


Why are you concealing your identity? Why not provide us with your real name and a link to your site? It's difficult to take someone seriously who isn't willing to disclose who they are. Anyone can snipe from cover.

Anonymous said...

@Robert Bruce Thompson: Oh, Please. Why should I have to provide a link to my site? So you can tell me privately why Konrath hasn't posted a link to this supposed boycott? Or so that you and his "legions of fans" can come flame the assclown? You have got to be kidding.

My question is perfectly reasonable and doesn't require me to sign my name to it to stay reasonable: why has the author not shown us the basis for this post, without which it dries up and blows away? Has he taken a couple of indie comments about not buying from Amazon the Publisher and inflated them into a sinister, industry-wide boycott of his own works in particular?

--Sylvia Beach
Shakespeare & Co., Paris

Blake Crouch said...

Dear Sylvia - The group in question was a private yahoo group for booksellers. Certainly you can understand why it is not possible to give you access (which we don't have) to a private yahoo group...

will this suffice?

http://seattlemysteryblog.typepad.com/seattle_mystery/2011/05/further-fracking-of-the-publishing-world.html

Anonymous said...

@Blake: So two specialty bookstores are an industry-wide conspiracy? ... I see.

You know damned well that most of the readers of this post now believe that hundreds of indie bookstores nationwide are actively boycotting your works, and you are allowing that misapprehension to stand simply because it suits you. That is pretty dishonest--sorry.

What actually happened is that one bookshop owner discussed an email from another one in a blog post. And maybe some other store owners commented on the issue on a listserv--or maybe they didn't--I can't find it.

So: big conspiracy, lots of commotion, vanishingly small basis in fact.

For the record, as an indie store owner I will also not buy from Amazon the Publisher. Amazon's goal is a closed eco-system named Amazon. Why should I help them? If indie stores nationwide come to that obvious conclusion independently, that is not a conspiracy, and you shouldn't take it personally.

Ender Chadwick said...

This line blew my mind: "Small independents need loyalty from customers but also loyalty from authors."

Well not so much loyalty from customers, that's what a good business does, develops great relationships to provide a loyal customer base. But demanding loyalty from a supplier!?

What do they expect from people? Would any author be able to earn even a modest living from their sales solely from independent bookstores? Somehow I doubt it.

Would they consider boycotting authors who's books were in other larger corporate retailers, like B&N, Borders, even Walmart?

No. They don't like Amazon so they're refusing to work with anyone who will work with Amazon. In my opinion that's fine for them, we all already know who's going to be hurt worse by this type of behavior.

Anonymous said...

@Ender: it was never a problem for authors to be sold by Amazon, Wal-Mart, B&N, what have you. The problem now is that Amazon wants to extend its reach vertically by becoming a major publisher, and this is something new. We already believe that they are parasitical price cutters whose business model is based on tax avoidance and bullying their suppliers. Now with this vertical move they become even more dangerous to the industry we love.

Konrath et al. have consciously enlisted as pawns in a chess game and they shouldn't take it personally if some players sweep them off the board. They'll do plenty of business from the platform they've chosen. They have no complaint.

Ender Chadwick said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Blake Crouch said...

@Blake: So two specialty bookstores are an industry-wide conspiracy? ... I see.

Please feel free to actually read our blog post before posting comments that distort what we wrote and attempt to assign some nefarious, self-serving motivation to this blog entry. We never said "industry-wide conspiracy." I'll make it easy on you and paste EXACTLY WHAT WAS WRITTEN right here for you:

"It's come to my attention that on a Yahoo group for booksellers there has been a call to boycott Amazon's new Thomas & Mercer imprint. I signed with Thomas & Mercer for STIRRED, the eighth Jack Daniels novel, co-written with Blake Crouch (who will chime in on this topic after me). I've also heard that certain booksellers want to return any books of mine they have in stock as a punitive measure."

Selena Kitt said...

You know damned well that most of the readers of this post now believe that hundreds of indie bookstores nationwide are actively boycotting your works, and you are allowing that misapprehension to stand simply because it suits you. That is pretty dishonest--sorry.

I'm under no such delusion. I doubt the rest of this blog's readers are either. Because we actually READ what was posted.

I don't think it's Joe who's blowing this out of proportion here...

Sharper13x said...

@Blake: So two specialty bookstores are an industry-wide conspiracy? ... I see.

we're back to this again?

So, does this mean we're NOT putting in a bar? Because I was really looking forward to it.

Jude Hardin said...

You know damned well that most of the readers of this post now believe that hundreds of indie bookstores nationwide are actively boycotting your works, and you are allowing that misapprehension to stand simply because it suits you. That is pretty dishonest--sorry.

Like I said, Indie bookstores seem to be in a bad mood these days.

Jude Hardin said...

BTW, A Drop of the Hard Stuff by Lawrence Block is currently ranked #218 paid in Kindle store.

At $12.99.

But why would a publisher price an ebook that high? Doesn't the 70% royalty rate stop at $9.99? If so, then the publisher (and therefore the author) is making far less per copy with the $12.99 price tag.

It's interesting, though, that Kindle owners will pay the big price for something they really want. A $12.99 novel ranked at 218 blows all kinds of holes in the $2.99 is the optimum price point for ebooks theory.

Robert Bruce Thompson said...

Jude Hardin said...

A $12.99 novel ranked at 218 blows all kinds of holes in the $2.99 is the optimum price point for ebooks theory.


Not at all. Book sales follow a power law. Depending on the shape of the curve, a book ranked #100 may sell 0.1% or less the number of copies of one ranked #1, and one at #218 still fewer.

A month or so ago, my friend Jerry Pournelle self-pubbed one of his old backlist titles, which for a short time was in the sub-#100 rank and for a longer time in the 100's and 200's. IIRC, he said that when he was ranked at #200 or thereabouts he was selling two or three dozen copies a day. If Block is doing that with his new title on Amazon, that's pathetic. He might be earning only $100/day on it. If it were priced at $2.99, he might be selling thousands of copies a day.

Jude Hardin said...

Interesting, Robert!

So any idea why a publisher would price a book at $12.99 when $9.99 would earn more per copy?

Dustin Wood said...

It does seem a rather petty and non-sensical position to take by the indie bookstore.

Unknown said...

'A Drop Of The Hard Stuff' was ranked at number 8 in hardback on the L.A. Times Book Review this past weekend, but only 218 on eBooks? Actually you don't have to be very good at searching Google to see that eBook Readers have their own boycott going on. Paying exorbatant prices for an eBook, when it is obviously so much cheaper to produce.

As for the Indies boycotting Konrath et al. It's not just them. It's ANYBODY that goes to Amazon imprints for publishing print books. I read that first in the NY Times, I believe in December, in their eBook section. You can also find that link on Google, but the article comes up "not found" which with the NYT usually means it has been archived and you have to pay for it, but it could mean they just pulled it.

And while doing the same search it isn't to damn hard to find links to other Inie Book Seller boycotts, for instance against B&N, Borders, Walmart, Target and the rest of the big box stores that started selling Best Sellers at discount prices. So, I'd have to conclude that Indie Book Sellers are mad at everbody, or at least most of them. Some, for instance Powells here in Portland ARE keeping up with the times and staying competitive. They now offer eBooks. You can even library your eBook purcases on Powell's servers. They also have print on demand and, as always, a very large selection of used books. Not to mention the most knowledgeable staff I ever found in a book store.

Robert Bruce Thompson said...

Jude Hardin said...

Interesting, Robert!

So any idea why a publisher would price a book at $12.99 when $9.99 would earn more per copy?


Sure. As Buffy remarked, their logic does not resemble Earth logic. Believe it or not, big publishers still consider $9.99 to be a "bargain" price for an ebook, and they do everything possible to keep ebook prices higher than $9.99, because they think anything cheaper will kill sales of hardbacks.

You can actually find ebooks from major publishers priced at $10.00 even, which gives them a $3.50 royalty. If they cut their price by one cent, they'd earn a $7.00 royalty on the same sale.

Robert Bruce Thompson said...

Incidentally, the flip side of the power law is good news for authors. I just checked Pournelle's ebook (A Step Farther Out) and saw that it was now at about #22,000 Amazon rank. If you look up Power Law on Wikipedia, you'll see a graph that shows how book sales quickly plummet as rank drops from #1 to (for example, #200) but then almost levels out. That means that at #22,000, Jerry might still be selling (say) five copies a day of that title and earning only $10 per day. Not much, you might think, but that's $3,500+ per year on one title, and Jerry has a *lot* of backlist titles.

In short, as Joe has said over and over, the trick is to get lots of books published. Not only do they feed on each other, but even once they (quickly) fall into the #10,000+ Amazon rank, they'll still be producing significant income as a group.

Anonymous said...

@recent commenters: Are you guys kidding? Dozens of commenters to this post have stated how crazy the indies are for starting a boycott of your work, when in fact they haven't and you haven't provided evidence that they have or ever will. You've allowed their misapprehension to stick. I know what you wrote, and I know how many of your readers misread it, and I've seen how you have allowed them to continue to believe their misreading because it serves your purposes.

Not a shining moment for you.

Incidentally, indie bookstores will be the mammals who survive when the dinosaurs like Borders disappear. Keep that in mind before you pick another fight for no reason.

Mark Asher said...

@Jude: "So any idea why a publisher would price a book at $12.99 when $9.99 would earn more per copy?"

We don't really know what margins the big publishers are getting, I believe. I think it's incorrect to assume they are working under the same kind of contract that KDP authors are.

Anyway, the whole thing behind the higher pricing is to avoid undercutting sales of hardbacks and quality paperbacks. They're in a hard spot when they still have to print hundreds of thousands of copies of books as well sell ebooks.

What's really mystifying to me is when they have a mass market edition at $7.99 and the ebook is still $9.99. That one makes no sense at all.

Ender Chadwick said...

@ Mark Asher,
I just read a great article regarding that. I can't vouch it's 100% accurate but it is worth a read.

http://www.patriciabriggs.com/index.shtml

Unknown said...

There is room for both ebooks and print and I buy them both. I support Indie bookstores, and like it was pointed out - they know where everything is and if they don't have the book you want they'll order it for you. They also suggest another author you may like.

When I buy ebooks on Amazon, price is a major factor, and sometimes I'm too lazy to drive down the street, lol.

As a writer, I applaud Joe for writing this blog. It's just too bad this has to be such a dirty business.

Writers don't just sell book - we sell our souls.

jtplayer said...

I can’t understand why Joe would even care about any supposed boycott by independent booksellers. He’s stated many times his future is with ebooks. That’s where he makes most of his money.

And right now, the indie bookstores aren’t getting any of that ebook pie.

Sure, lots of creative ideas have been floated (including the ebook gift card idea) as to how the indies can get in on the action. But I really don’t see any of them taking hold, certainly not in a big way.

Based on reading this blog over the last year or more, I honestly don’t think Joe even believes in print anymore, certainly not as a viable medium for his work. And it’s a known fact he does not believe in “big publishing”. How long before Amazon starts acting like the Big 6 remains to be seen.

I can sure see though, how Amazon’s interest in getting into the print publishing game feels like a total bitch slap to independent booksellers.

This whole debate is a lot of empty gas, IMO.

jtplayer said...

I just reread Joe's original blog post and the following comment jumped out:

"But for the first time in my writing career, I'm making a comfortable living because of them."

Hold on a minute mister...I thought Joe was getting "rich" off ebooks. At least that's what he keeps telling us. Why so humble suddenly?

Unknown said...

Rich isn't comfortable, jt?

jtplayer said...

I'd say rich is beyond comfortable.

In fact, being rich is probably pretty "excellent" living.

I'm solidly middle class, and I'm comfortable ;-)

W. Dean said...

Anonymous,

You’re turning downright disingenuous. First you claimed that Konrath and Crouch were willing pawns in Amazon’s grand strategy to destroy indie booksellers, and you implied (or asserted) that indies were justified in boycotting them because of it. You even suggested that you’ll be doing the same. Now you’re accusing Konrath and Crouch of fabricating the whole boycott business. So which is it? Lawyers call this having an excuse and an alibi...

Unknown said...

Yer probably right, he's more than "comfortable" but less than "filthy" probably hoovering around "well off" maybe just north of "doing alright" but I'd have to consult my accountant and Robert Reich to come up with more accurate adjectives/adverbs than that...

jtplayer said...

Well rich is definitely better than "doing alright" or "well off".

I'm not too sure about filthy rich though, as I've never known Joe to use that expression.

Anonymous said...

Since this has been hashed to death, how about a new topic--Rachelle Gardner, an agent, says that more choice is bad for readers and that traditional publishers are the ones who care about readers. And most people commenting agreed and retweeted and fawned.

Is this the industry refusing to see what's happening, or someone trying to get other people to fail to see it?

Joe, I felt like you cared about the reader. But I guess I was wrong.

Unknown said...

"more choice is bad for readers"? You got to be kidding me. Okay, lets get rid of all the publishers...except one. And all the different genre...except one...and then we'll start on the books. How the hell can choise be bad? Even with the dearth of bad books because it is so easy to self publish, the bad books and the bad writers will give up and fall away as their stuff gets ignored. But I still want to choose.If someone actually said that, then yep, they are in denial.

Anonymous said...

Yesterdays post on her blog. Who will care about the readers, self pubbing is all about the writer, readers need traditional publishers, too much choice is bad.

Jude Hardin said...

Everyone should read Rachelle’s post before making judgment. She makes some good points.

Unborn

Unknown said...

Perhaps for the casual reader, it's not an invalid point. Not vaklid mind you, just not invalid. For me, a voracious reader since I was a kid, it doesn't hold water. I have a very hard time finding books I haven't read or that I want to read, and my interests run from History to Science, Politics, Biogs, Literary Fiction (whatever that is) to Crime Fiction and touch on Sci Fi (I've probably read every genre known to publishing at one tme or another) As an example, The BBC had a list of the 100 must read books. I had read 84, and had no real interest in reading but about 4 or 5 of those I hadn't read. I'll also get burned out on an author after awhile. I had quit on Patterson and Alex Cross because it was all retreads. The he did the Womens Murder Club, and I kind of liked the short,choppy chapters, but after about number 6 it was retreads again. Nothing really fresh in content or style(and I realize that he has very little to do beyond concept anymore). What I did do was read a lot of his ghost writers or cowriters and discovered some fresh voices and actually became a bigger fan of them, than him. I've been reviewing books for about two years, and naturally I get a lot of Indies and self published authors I have nnever heard of before. Some are gold, most are not. It's gotten to the point that I limit the genre even, unless this new author comes recommended (Blake Crouch). Still, I welcome the chaff because I need the wheat, and 9 out of 10 times I wasn't finding it at Borders or B&N.

Mark Asher said...

Her argument can be boiled down to this: Too many books is a bad thing for readers because it will confuse them and make it hard to find the good books.

My feeling about that is social media is all about sharing and recommending, so too many books is not a problem. We will find them. We might miss a few, but hasn't it always been like that? There are plenty of great books with lousy sales.

She also talks about the NY publishers as being the benevolent gatekeepers with the readers best interest in mind. They don't do such a great job with this and there's a lot of extra money tacked onto the cost of a book to pay for this gatekeeping service.

As a consumer I'd like to see the process streamlined and the savings passed on to me. Why should I pay an extra $5 per book for gatekeeping services?

Rose said...

@Mark Asher: "Her argument can be boiled down to this: Too many books is a bad thing for readers because it will confuse them and make it hard to find the good books.

This type of statement shows up a lot on romance web sites. It is usually authors who feel threatened by the changes trying to convince his or herself that all will be well. The fact is that a lot of genre books are published that I would I would not buy and read under any circumstances. The Kindle book published by an Agency publisher that had 49 different and distinct errors of word use or punctuation in less than 250 pages still makes me shudder. In the past six months I have read maybe four books I would consider worth rereading.

Oh, and I cannot believe no one called "Sylvia Beach" on that. Sylvia Beach of Shakespeare & Company died in 1962.

jtplayer said...

Another one signs with Amazon:

Barry Eisler signs with Thomas and Mercer

Interesting.

Nicholas La Salla said...

Boycotting authors simply because they choose to push their product with a different company?

We have a word for a system like that.

It's called a monopoly.

Amazon has a better selection, pure and simple. I hate going to the book store and finding that they are not carrying what I want, or simply do not have my book of choice in stock. It's annoying, it's a waste of gas in a world where gas is over $4 a gallon.

And yes, I am aware I could call first. That's if I know exactly what I want before I get to the store. Often I will go and simply browse.

If I browse at Amazon, I know for a fact I will find something I want.

If I browse at Barnes & Noble or Borders, there's a good chance I won't.

Book stores need to appeal to their consumers. Give us a reason to go to your place instead of someone else. I'm sorry, but expensive coffee and a place to sit down do not make me want to visit one over another.

I want ease and convenience. I want selection. I want decent pricing.

Most of all, I want good books. What I consider good may not be what you consider good.

This is why virtual bookstores will always win out over the brick & mortar stores.

UNLESS they give me something unique.

It's just like any product. Why should I go to one grocery store over another? Why should I buy one deodorant over another brand? Why should I buy one type of cereal instead of a packet of Instant Oatmeal?

I have no brand loyalty when it comes to cereal, oat meal, deodorant or anything else. Whoever gives me the cheapest price is pretty much where I will go.

I think that's true of most readers, as well.

Until the entire publishing system is redrawn, bookstores and publishers will continue to sink.

E-Books are an important part of my life now. My own books are taking off, and I'm looking forward to a great future.

To any bookstores considering boycotting authors because they are publishing E-Books, or signing with Amazon, or anything else:

Until you call off your boycotts and change that negative swan song you are singing, you will only be losing readers. Your negativity will come out in other ways that can turn off shoppers.

No one likes a sore loser.

Either try something different or accept your fate.


Nick

B. Justin Shier said...

"Oh, and I cannot believe no one called "Sylvia Beach" on that. Sylvia Beach of Shakespeare & Company died in 1962."

I believe George Whitman handed over operations of Shakespeare & Co. to his daughter, Sylvia Beach Whitman, a year or so ago. (Not that I believe it was her posting.)

I miss Paris...and congratulations, Rose. You managed to do what even Konrath could not: drag me out of lurker land.

Anonymous said...

The Sylvia Beach thing was a joke. I was reacting to the charge that my argument had no merit because I had posted anonymously. My name is actually Ford Madox Ford.

For the final time, there is no indie boycott, and there is no contradiction in the argument. If everyone decides independently not to drink the Drano under the sink, they have not conspired their way to that decision. Indie booksellers will naturally come to the decision--most, not all of them--that buying from Amazon the Publisher will hurt their industry and in the long run their own businesses. The logic of the situation leads to something that will look to Amazon authors like a boycott but is not one in any meaningful sense of the term. I think it is that logic rather than any evidence of a present boycott that Konrath is responding to in his post.

It will get interesting if Larry K. actually brings in a big author and indie stores have to decide not to stock a bold-face name. I believe that they will make that decision. Before you tell me how evil that is -- to restrict choice--let me remind you of two things: first, bookstores are showrooms and curated collections, we never made any pretense that we carried everything in stock. Second, let me remind you that your patrons from Amazon removed the buy buttons from every book from Pacmillan, one of largest legacy publishers, just because they were in a snit over agency pricing. Talk about boycotts!

Robert Bruce Thompson said...

It will get interesting if Larry K. actually brings in a big author and indie stores have to decide not to stock a bold-face name.

Barry Eisler big enough for you?

Anonymous said...

Barry just responded to some crit over at Janet Reid's blog--Joe, you were lumped in, too, in the comments.

Anonymous said...

Barry Eisler? No. He is a respected midlist author and all kudos for his success, but I'm talking about authors an indie bookstore can't live without,like Dennis Lehane, or Ian McEwan, or Cormac McCarthy, and megasellers like Jodi Picoult, which a bookstore looks weird without. If Larry picks any of that kind of author up, it's a gamechanger. My guess is that he won't, but who knows, that's why they play the games. Another wild card is what happens if the rights to the works of recently deceased indie darlings like Wallace Stegner or Kurt Vonnegut somehow end up in the evil clutches of Amazon. Would we live without them?

Intersting times.

--Ford (Madox Ford, not Prefect)

W. Dean said...

Jude Hardin,

First, it seems to me that Rachelle offered the rebuttal to her own argument: there are already too many books for one person to read or even to scan. I’d correct that by adding that there have been too many books to read for over a century. Yet it seems to me that readers have managed to navigate the waters without much trouble. In fact, the only ones complaining about the number of books seem to be writers and publishers.

Second, my eyes roll compulsively when I hear publishing houses called “gate-keepers” (so, yes, my eyes hurt even more when I write it). Publishers are in the making-money-by-selling-books business. They’re no more gate-keepers of good books than Hollywood is of good movies or the recording industry of good music. Any “gate-keeping” function these industries serve is incidental to their primary one.

Third, most people here and in the blogosphere seem to have a limited historical view of the publishing industry. Books were printed (rather than “published”) long before there were dutiful gate-keepers with degrees in marketing deciding for readers and authors what was fit to print. In fact, the vast majority of acknowledged classics never saw the wise hand of a professional editor (I say this as a professional editor). In the old days, it was other writers who critiqued one another; publishers just printed and bound their books.

Jude Hardin said...

Everybody's in the money-making business, lol. Me, you, everybody.

But agents and editors are gatekeepers in that they reject books that simply aren't, and probably never will be, ready for publication. Books with opening paragraphs about weather, laughable alliteration, incredible coincidences, word repetition in close proximity, head-hopping POVs, unintentional rhymes, sentences that don't logically follow one another, imprudent use of exclamation marks, verbs inappropriately applied to inanimate objects, adverbial dialogue tags, adjectives out the yingyang, confusing and pointless dialogue exchanges, unexplainable verb tense shifts, pronoun confusion, nonsensical sentence structure...

Now hundreds of thousands of these books have been "published" and are available for purchase. Only $.99!

Do well-written books also get rejected because of low sales potential? Of course. But at least the book that do get picked for representation or publication meet some sort of minimum standard of quality. That can't be said for the majority of self-published titles flooding the market.

Anonymous said...

Jude Hardin, for the win.

Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap. In a world where everyone's an author, that number changes, and not for the better. People laugh at the "gatekeepers" like they laugh at teachers in high school--i.e., immaturely, wrongly.

Just another brick in the wall, baby.

--Ford again

Robert Bruce Thompson said...

@Jude Hardin

Yes, trad publishers prevent some of that trash from getting through, but by no means all of it. I've read Big Six books that contain every flaw you've mentioned, often several of them. Well, except maybe the exclamation points.

That was true even 45 years or so ago, when I first started reading fiction heavily. I remember one Alistair MacLean title (The Golden Gate, I think) in which the protagonist took action based on information that he couldn't have had until later in the story. Nowadays, it's worse, because publishers don't do nearly as much editing as they used to.

There are any number of poor writers whose books sell well. Patricia Cornwell is simply awful, for example, as is Clive Cussler. Apparently, they slipped through the gate somehow. But ultimately, neither one of us gets to judge what's good and what's bad. That's up to readers, who vote with their dollars.

The truly bad self-pubbed books, assuming some kind of objective standard for that classification, will do poorly in the marketplace and sink without a trace. And those truly bad books that sell well? Well, they're obviously not truly bad by the standards of large numbers of readers.

We don't need trad publishers to gatekeep for us. Crowd-sourced gatekeeping is just fine, better in fact than the gatekeeping of traditional publishers.

Nancy Beck said...

@Jude - thanks for posting the link to Rachelle Gardner's blog.

I left my own thoughts on it. :-)

Nancy Beck said...

Robert Bruce Thompson said, We don't need trad publishers to gatekeep for us. Crowd-sourced gatekeeping is just fine, better in fact than the gatekeeping of traditional publishers.

I agree.

Power to the people! :-)

Selena Kitt said...

Robert Bruce Thompson for the win! ;)

You might not like it - but there are some poorly written books that are quite popular. And so what? If it's entertaining the masses, and they're voting with their dollars - who are you to say they have made a bad choice?

Your standards may not apply if the story or characters are compelling enough. And if they are compelling to an overwhelming majority who are voting with their wallets - you don't get to say they suck. Because they clearly don't, to those buying the book.

This is the Wild West - there is no law. You don't get to set it, publishers don't get to set it. Readers get to say yes or no. If they're saying yes, your "no!" is just shouting into a storm.

Don't waste your energy or your time. You could be writing instead. :)

Jude Hardin said...

I'm a reader, too, but I don't have time to go through slush. Who does?

David Gaughran said...

Other people do it for you. They are called "reviewers".

Do you have problem finding good books now?

I don't.

Ender Chadwick said...

This whole thing reminds me of an article I read in the early 90's. It was an interview with BB King and they were discussing music (guitarists in particular), basically asking BB--who is widely regarded as a great guitarist--what he thought of the newer "grunge" guitarists.

I got the impression the interviewer expected BB to trash them and say how they couldn't play. Unfortunately I have to paraphrase because that was nearly 20 years ago, but BB said: 'That the only thing that matters is that you connect with your audience.'

SBJones said...

If I had to guess, I would say you were targeted to be made an example of. There is a familiar undertone with what you are experiencing and what the RIAA is doing by suing random people for millions of dollars over downloaded MP3's that are so worthless that no one will spend a dime to buy from a store.

You were a cash cow for someone and now your not. Also your well known in the blog community so they are banking on the noise you create to scare other mid/low success authors into playing their game.

With luck it will backfire on them and they will fail or evolve. In the past, the publishers ruled. Now its the authors and content creators time.

Robert Bruce Thompson said...

Speaking of truly awful trad published books, I remembered a blog entry I made 11 years ago.



The comment about hiring my wife refers to her business at the time of doing research for novelists.

Robert Bruce Thompson said...

Ah, I see that the comments don't allow direct links to be posted, so let's try this:

www. ttgnet. com/daynotes/2000/20000313. html#Friday

Karen Woodward said...

@Selena Kitt
This is the Wild West - there is no law.

Agree! :)

Anonymous said...

Crowd sourced versus traditional authority--a complicated issue. It all depends on the execution. If a community of gatekeepers has high standards then I think they will win out, by a nose, if only because there is something to be said for professionalism over the "wisdom of crowds"--but there are some stunning counterexamples. You mention Patricia Cornwall-- well I certainly agree that she is awful. Her writing became more disjointed and frankly psycho with each new title, and the "gatekeepers" fall down on their jobs when they allow that to happen. In his memoir Another Life, famous S&S editor Michael Korda writes about what happened when he caught staggering inconsistencies in the plot of one of his authors, a famous writer of thrillers. "Fuck 'em," this author said of his readers, "they'll never catch it and if they do they won't care." They published the book over Korda's objections and sold a zillion copies. No one wrote in.

Actually, if anyone reading this wants to get an accurate and very entertaining look at the world of "legacy" editing and publishing, from the inside, that's a great place to start--Another Life, by Michael Korda.

--Ford again

Jude Hardin said...

Do you have problem finding good books now?

Nope. I just purchased A Drop of the Hard Stuff by Lawrence Block for $12.99. I don't have to sift through a bunch of reviews and samples; I already know it's going to be well-written.

Look, I'm not saying there aren't some great self-published books (I recently finished one called RUN by Blake Crouch), and I'm not saying they're aren't some truly awful traditionally-published books. That's not the point. The point is, with an ebook market overwhelmingly crowded with unreadable self-published swill, it's going to become harder and harder for fine new authors to stand out.If it's harder and harder for fine new authors to stand out, then it's harder and harder for readers to find them. Therefore, too many choices really can be a bad thing, for readers and authors alike.

Not that there's anything anyone can do about it. Like Selena said, it's the wild wild west. Yippee ki-yay.

W. Dean said...

Jude Hardin,

We’re now talking about two different kinds of gate-keeping. Rachelle suggested that publishers’ primary role was picking out and polishing “good books” and that readers now faced too many “choices.”

I responded (principally) that this was a moot point because they’ve always faced too many choices. Once you have 2-3 million books available, each new million can only make things marginally more complicated.

You responded to me by pointing to the quality of writing, which is a different bird. Unlike others, I agree that the quality of indie editing is lower overall than it is in traditionally published books.

Unlike you, however, the only problem I see with indie e-books is the easily navigable clutter. There’s even a bonus: bad prose is a good proxy for separating the wheat from the chaff (e.g., “Jill Smith is a clearvoyent…” Do you have to read more?). One needn’t be sucked in by a finely polished turd.

I don’t want to sound glib about it, but I just don’t see how the cons of the new outweigh the pros of the old for the reader. E-books may even improve things by giving readers a chance to participate (as others have pointed out) in the books they read, making for a more engaging experience.

Jeff Kay said...

I was in the music industry for many years, and when technology began to threaten the status quo they went on the attack. Instead of accepting the new reality, they sued people and turned vicious. And that only made folks feel even more justified (in their minds) to download music for free. "Screw those assholes!" was the general reaction. And I see the same thing happening with publishing. You'd think they would know better, by now.

Anonymous said...

Though technology (as always) does threaten the status quo, that's not what is causing all the commotion here. It's one predatory company riding that technology on a quest for World Domination that is causing the commotion.

I know that most of you think of Amazon very positively, but if you look under a microscope at a single-celled organism trying to absorb and eliminate all other single-celled organisms, that is the way the rest of the publishing industry thinks of Amazon.

--Ford

Anonymous said...

I wish I could get indie bookstores to accept my books, but I don't hold with the returns policy. When they drop it and embrace a sell it or trash it policy I will be glad to supply. otherwise, I'll stick with selling my books myself.

I wish I could participate in a forum without getting defamed by hero worshippers who don't know me or anything about me, but use you as a springboard for their vicious self-serving attacks. You should know that I have done battle in the last few hours with people I should be suing for libel. Instead, I have chosen to leave them wallowing in their own mud by removing my presence. I don't have time for the stupidity and namecalling.

I wish boycotting Amazon would bring an answer to the question, but it doesn't. I have just published a book which will likely not see their print catalog because I will be holding it back until they explain what they are doing to promote books again. To date sales of printed books have dropped to practically nothing. Maybe the boycott is having an effect on sales, maybe not, but I am tired of being stuck in the middle. I am just going to sell from my own site from now on, since Amazon seems incapable of governing itself.

Anonymous said...

Rachelle's argument may have merit (I happen to think it's paternalistic) but it would be easier to take seriously if it weren't coming from an agent who is TOTALLY invested in the traditional publishing paradigm.

Also, as an agent, isn't she supposed to care about writers first?

She's arguing that self-publishing is only good for writers and their egos, but those are her clients. Readers are not her clients. You can feel charitably concerned about readers, but if your job is to represent and fight for the rights of writers, than the post becomes even more transparent.

TheSanPintoTimes said...

Still making the $600,000 or more a year? How many people are in this group? Probably just a handful, pissed off indies. Most people don't care about their opinions. I'm sure you will be just fine. :)

TheSanPintoTimes said...

Boycott the hand that feeds you. Morons.

Caroline Gerardo said...

Indie Bookstores must find the courage to change. Your ideas to distinguish themselves as a place to socialize and purchase books is good. The idea for them to publish exclusive collections is excellent.
The only way for a store to compete with Bezos is to provide authors at face to face events. We as Authors who epublish will need to follow Konrath's tough discipline and get out on tour and buy the wine.

Marie Loughin said...

I'm kinda new to publishing, especially the e-book self-publishing thing, and am trying to absorb all the nuances instantaneously. Acronyms kill. What does ABA stand for? I googled and got: Allied Beauty Association, American Basketball Association, Applied Behavioral Analysis, Acid-Based Accounting (is that even legal?)...

Robert Bruce Thompson said...

Caroline Gerardo said...

Indie Bookstores must find the courage to change. Your ideas to distinguish themselves as a place to socialize and purchase books is good. The idea for them to publish exclusive collections is excellent.
The only way for a store to compete with Bezos is to provide authors at face to face events. We as Authors who epublish will need to follow Konrath's tough discipline and get out on tour and buy the wine.


Uh, Joe has said several times that he no longer tours, does signings, nor even gives interviews. All of those are unproductive, and a waste of time that he could be spending writing.

Author events aren't going to save indies. Indies can't afford to pay enough to attract the authors who'd draw a crowd, and the ones they can attract aren't going to sell that many books.

Nancy Beck said...

@Marie Loughlin -

I believe that's the American Booksellers Association.

Suzanne Tyrpak said...

Hi Blake and Joe,

Blake, I sent a link to this very interesting article to Libby at Maria's.

Hope you guys are having a fine time in my hometown.

Suzanne

Anonymous said...

@Robert B. : indie bookstores do not pay for authors, whether they are big or small. Publishers send them at no charge to the bookstores to promote their new titles. This is true also for the chains.

Authors will have separate agents to book events that they do get paid for, most often non-profits, professional organizations, etc.

--Ford

Author Scott Nicholson said...

Set yourself on fire to protest the sunrise. Great business model.

Jude Hardin said...

indie bookstores do not pay for authors, whether they are big or small. Publishers send them at no charge to the bookstores to promote their new titles. This is true also for the chains.

Yep.

But I also agree with Robert that author events are not going to save independent bookstores. In my experience, only a handful of people make a special trip to see name authors such as Tess Gerritsen and Brad Thor; nobody makes a special trip to see the others.

Starred review in Publisher’s Weekly

Réussie Miliardario said...

"Since my Dad is a superintendent at a school district that is going to provide Kindles to all of the High School students and a lot of campus's (I know of IN) that are asking all students to carry netbooks, it is a pretty safe bet that YA books will do well as eBooks in the future."

This is very interesting--thanks Coral.

Unknown said...

I once went 150 miles to see an author, and had to talk someone into driving me since I can't drive (eyes) band wouldn't miss a signing or even a lecture by an author I enjoy, but I also realize that I am an exception. Most signings I have attended have less than 10 or 20 people that are there specifically for that event.

Anonymous said...

Fact remains, 90% of the people reading this blog post--you can see it in the comments!--believe that there is actually an indie boycott and are commenting how stupid the indies are.

Fact remains, there is no indie boycott. This post picked a fight with a straw man and everyone is piling on.

--Ford

Terri Reid said...

Joe - I just came here to congratulate you on your publication through Thomas and Mercer. I think it's great and another victory for indie writers. Thanks for keeping on in the fight - in a very classy way!

Terri Reid

JA Konrath said...

Barry Eisler and I are finalizing our third 10,000 word dialog, mostly about Thomas & Mercer, but we get into a few other issues.

It will be live on Tuesday.

Robin Sullivan said...

Joe Konrath said...
Barry Eisler and I are finalizing our third 10,000 word dialog, mostly about Thomas & Mercer, but we get into a few other issues.

It will be live on Tuesday.


Can't wait - though my plans were to get some serious editing done on Tuesday!! No sleep for the weary - or those that are very intrested in how this is all playing out.

Robin Sullivan | Write2Publish | Ridan Publishing

CC MacKenzie said...

Hello Joe Konrath,

I'm an author of paranormal romance.

I tend to lurk here Joe & Co, but the comments and Barry's news have de-lurked me.

Literary Agent, Janet Reid has posted on her blog about Barry Eisler signing with Thomas & Mercer.

Here's my comment on Janet's blog today:

"I am absolutely thrilled with this news. I love Barry's writing.

I've been following Barry and Joe Konrath's take on what's happening for almost a year now and they've certainly opened a debate amongst authors, agents and publishers. Including, the indie bookstores.

They've given a voice to the author and fight for the author's right to be paid in an open and fair way.

By signing with Thomas & Mercer, Barry is giving his readers a choice. E-book or printed version, he is listening to his customer needs. Nothing wrong with that.

You can rant and rave at Amazon all you like, but they are providing an outstanding reader service. Every time a reader buys a book, whether on Kindle or download or printed, they press a button. No point in shooting a company when it's their customers - the reader - who is deciding which way publishing will go. Give the readers what they want and they will stay with you - how hard is that for the big six to understand?

E-publishers will need to raise their game too and pay their authors accordingly. 14% without an advance is a disgrace imho.

Barry & Joe are happy and that says it all to me.

Thank you for posting this Janet.

Christine"

See you guys on Tuesday, look forward to it.

Christine

Walter Knight said...

The 'Gatekeepers' also reject books because of politics.

The Big 6 NY Publishers had the same power to censor content as did NBC, CBS, and ABC. Now like Cable TV, small presses and indies give us an entertainment media choice.

Shawna said...

Blockbuster is experiencing the same problem with the popularity of NetFlix.

NetFlix only streams a limited number of movies currently, but eventually when you can play any movie on demand Blockbuster (and any other brick and mortar video store) is done for. All that will be left will be the little dollar per night kiosks like RedBox.

All things change.

Tracy Jo said...

Just found your blog. Great post and information! I am very new to this whole writing thing and this was awesome to read. Thank you!

~Tracy
www.evolvingsoul11.com

Terry Vaughn Skaug said...

E-books are not the future, but the here and now and still, I prefer holding a bound collection of pages while I submerge myself into a place, an adventure, an event created by an imaginative mind. I LOVE indie book stores, but since there are none left in my area to patronize, I am switching to an e-reader and that I’m buying at the Barnes & Noble in a nearby town.

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Leonard D. Hilley II said...

I have to wonder if the Big 6 has something to do with this boycott effort as they are the ones losing a LOT of money to indie publishers. They have their "gate-keepers" that decide who they publish or won't. Technology is changing at a rapid rate. However, indies are crashing through those gates.

Great post!!!

W. Dean said...

The idea that indie bookstores will disappear is based on a questionable assumption about what happens when a new technology coupled with a new business model supersedes older ones. Since paper books are media, the technical side should be compared to other cases of technological change in media, like radio and television.

I can’t make the whole argument here, but consider a comparison with vinyl records. My city has roughly 10 shops that exclusively sell vinyl records and another 20 that deal in vinyl as part of their vintage merchandize business—that makes at least 30 stores selling vinyl records.

There are also roughly 30 independent booksellers in my city, a number that includes used and specialty shops. To be sure, there are many more chain booksellers, so the total number of bookstores dwarfs the number of vinyl record shops. But this is to ignore the fact that no one mass-produces vinyl records anymore, that new music is not recorded on it, and that the price of records and of the other equipment necessary to play vinyl albums makes it a rarified pursuit.

As I mentioned earlier, the business side tells a similar story. E-books and on-line sellers will kill chains, which operate on the same principle (move mass quantities at low prices), but at a higher operating cost with little value added. Indie customers are already paying a premium, so it’s not obvious that on-line retailers will affect their business as much as they will chains.

By the way, the claim that indie booksellers and their paper books will "become" a niche market (if they survive at all) ignores the fact that they already "are" a niche in the publishing industry.

Unknown said...

W. Dean makes some good points, particularly that Indie Book Stores (I'll add, for the most part) are already niche markets. I also think that a lot of people are approaching this'situation' in an odd manner.EBooks will know more kill Indie Book Stores than CD's killed Record Stores. What they did was kill Record Stores that continued to rely on Vinyl Records as their main revenue source. In other words, they did not adapt to changing markets and technology. Apapt. Embrace the new technology, the new media and they can survive.

What EBooks will do (as a new media for delivering books to the masses at good prices) is kill the previous media that delivered books at a reasonable price. Paperbacks. Just as the paperback killed pulp magazines during he period of 1940-1950. Ultimately, I don't see EBooks impacting the hardback market to any great extent. No more so than paperbacks impacted hardbacks 60 or 70 years ago.

Douglas Adams when asked about how technology would impact media had this to say, and irreverent as it sounds, there is a good deal of truth: It's important to remember that the relationship between different media tends to be complementary. When new media arrive they don't necessarily replace or eradicate previous types. Though we should perhaps observe a half second silence for the eight-track. — There that's done. What usually happens is that older media have to shuffle about a bit to make space for the new one and its particular advantages. Radio did not kill books and television did not kill radio or movies — what television did kill was cinema newsreel. TV does it much better because it can deliver it instantly. Who wants last week's news?
Generally, old media don't die. They just have to grow old gracefully. Guess what, we still have stone masons. They haven't been the primary purveyors of the written word for a while now of course, but they still have a role because you wouldn't want a TV screen on your headstone.

Faith said...

I feel compelled to weigh in on this conversation. The amount of vitriol against Joe is insane. He's trying to help people by giving them useful information. He's spent years making an untenable situation work for his interests. If people don't want to get with the program, then move on!! I've also noticed how a regular contributor jtplayer does nothing but work as a professional contrarian to whatever subject is posted AND simultaneously debates other participants at this forum in a consistently condescending and demeaning way. Wasn't Browerbird [sp] kicked off this forum for similar antagonistic behavior. At least he provided some useful information from time to time. I have yet to see any such feedback from this other person. and his negativity really drags down the flow of these conversations. This is aside from the usual naysayers, but that's to be expected. This other person is equally combative to everyone here.

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