tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post6605807137085728906..comments2024-03-28T02:00:11.260-05:00Comments on A Newbie's Guide to Publishing: Shocking WSJ Discovery: Higher Prices=Lower Volume!JA Konrathhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-58431098922363532522015-10-13T22:17:11.860-05:002015-10-13T22:17:11.860-05:00So interesting. I have my own theories but kindle ...So interesting. I have my own theories but kindle unlimited may be part of the decline. I can set the search for books on my kindle only for ku titles and sometimes when browsing that's what I do. Prior to joining ku early this year I rarely bought indie but ku exposed me to so many great indie authors. Also I shop regularly on Amazon and I use slow shipping credits. Last year I was able to use credits on any physical books which was what I did. Then Amazon changed it to only e-books (or video or music but I mainly use for my kindle). Then earlier this year I noticed with one publisher I couldn't use my credits on. I didn't think much of it. Then in July I noticed all mainstream publishers I couldn't use my credits on. Maybe it all ended earlier but I had pre-ordered books way in advance and my shipping credits still worked on those mainstream publishers titles in late July but not since. Now I think I understand why. I was looking at a book by a new author 5.99 and then I saw it was an s&s book and I thought drat. If not it would've been free because I have enough credits. I still bought though. But at 9.99 and 12.99 books I consider buying a used paperwork. Sometimes the new paperback is cheaper or the same price. Even as I preordered a fav author's 12.99 release I thought it would've been nice to even get 5 or 6 dollars off in kindle credits but now that doesn't work. Don't get me wrong. I'm very happy with amazon and my shipping credits. I think it actually makes me buy a lot more on Amazon. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-58604226168908409952015-09-10T14:16:21.571-05:002015-09-10T14:16:21.571-05:00Sheesh Barry, last week you told me I was goin'...Sheesh Barry, last week you told me I was goin' "all Godwin", but here you are all metaphorically propagandist with lines referring to sodomy, Gulags, and the Berlin Wall ;)<br /><br />But seriously you were on a roll with this post, and I thoroughly enjoyed it.<br /><br />The thing I really liked about the WSJ article was the comments. Most of them seemed to come from readers/consumer's voicing their displeasure with the traditional publishing pricing model for ebooks. The consumers have spoken. <br />Wernerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13177999875649895318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-57812604950690911422015-09-09T09:52:32.184-05:002015-09-09T09:52:32.184-05:00Sometimes it seems like all you'd really need ...Sometimes it seems like all you'd really need to change the landscape of Indie Publishing is to hire two fictional characters: Olivia Pope (from Scandal) and Alan Shore (Crane, Poole and Schmidt) from Boston Legal. You might only need Olivia. <br /><br />Then the public would have a brand new image in their minds about the power indie writers have, the downturn of the big 5 (or is it less now?), the mindless and grasping news-articles that try to scapegoat Amazon over and over again.<br /><br />But then I'd have a new worry. What would Joe and Barry be writing blogs about? No...wait, I think they'd go back to writing more fun fiction books for us fans to read. Hmmm....Scott Marmorsteinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-90547951082081631272015-09-08T16:37:44.971-05:002015-09-08T16:37:44.971-05:00Remember that the Demand Curve is just that ... a ...Remember that the Demand Curve is just that ... a curve. It doesn't have to have half your readers fleeing your ebook version to have an effect.<br /><br />It can be 1 in 10 who decide, meh, I'll wait for the paperback version. Or they'll be curious enough to visit the library.<br /><br />And that 1 in 10 will likely be not the trufans who buy everything on publishing day, but the sort-of fan who likes the guy.<br /><br />But sometimes, it'll be the fan who has decided that enough's enough.<br /><br />Meanwhile, for those of us not published by New York, the picture's better. Even for my low-demand niche books, I reached 2014's sales on July 30. And last month, my book sales are neck and neck with my ebook sales. Plus, I've gotten my books into three book stores, including one in New York City. So, yeah, I'm doing better. Not self-supporting, but better.Bill Peschelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15257587479467531187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1775150190339192362015-09-07T12:25:15.610-05:002015-09-07T12:25:15.610-05:00@ Rob Browne (first comment),
I'm an avid read...@ Rob Browne (first comment),<br />I'm an avid reader as well as indie author, and I would rather buy three or four indie ebooks instead of one trad-pubbed at $10 or more. In fact, I won't pay more than $5 for an ebook now.<br />That said, you can find trad-pubbed ebooks on sale (Amazon's doing or the trad-pubber?). I found a recent Connelly book for under $5 and Weir's The Martian for $2 recently. Readers have to be smart consumers. (I was disappointed in both ebooks, by the way, but I'd be more so if I'd spent $12.99.)<br />As a writer, my goal is to provide quality entertainment at a reasonable price. My first three novels were PODs; they're not competitive now either. I published a second edition ebook of my first book and am working on one for the third. My goal is to have all my ebooks priced at $4 or less--that works for readers and hopefully for me in the long run. Right now I'm pumping all royalties back into producing the next ebook, and I'm running in the red, but my situation is still optimal because I'm not a slave to trad-pubbers or POD people, just entertaining readers.<br />r/Steve<br />PS to Barry, what you didn't treat (neither did WSJ, for that matter) is the phenomenon that an increasing supply and a diminishing demand is bad for market growth. More good authors and ebooks are being produced, period, and the number of avid readers is diminishing (are readers a vanishing species?) for many reasons. I'm guessing there are other factors determining optimum pricing and the latter is dynamical. (I'm no economist either, but WSJ and the NY Times often amaze me about their lack of common sense.) Steven M. Moorehttp://stevenmmoore.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-37247924490230414252015-09-07T11:24:50.676-05:002015-09-07T11:24:50.676-05:00Snark aside, sales volume is linked to unit price ...Snark aside, sales volume is linked to unit price by an elasticity curve, but revenue is not, or at least not to the same degree. You can raise a price and still see revenue go up while unit volume goes down. Business analysts look for the sweet spot where the curves cross to maximize their profits. All your points are valid vis-a-vis the publishing industry, but WSJ article was not an exercise in reporting the obvious. The writer simply understood the difference between unit sale volume and total revenue.Jonah Gibsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15718378638626020770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-73428623813995062082015-09-06T17:06:56.732-05:002015-09-06T17:06:56.732-05:00I'm no expert, but I can't help but feel t...<i>I'm no expert, but I can't help but feel that eventually high ebook prices will put the hurt on some of those big 5 authors. </i><br /><br />Here's something I mentioned before, that deserves it's own blog post: big authors can publicly bitch about Amazon because Amazon sales don't matter to them.<br /><br />When you get an advance so large you'll never earn it back, sales don't matter to you. They matter to your publisher, who can make money on a title long before the author advance is paid back. So they whine about Amazon on behalf of their publisher, because Amazon doesn't pay them giant advances that won't ever earn them a cent in royalties.<br /><br />High ebook prices protect sales. When paper sales dwindle, ebook prices will come down for big bestsellers, because they don't have that prime paper distribution real estate driving sales, and don't have any coop advantage. Consider the movies. A hot IP like Star Wars doesn't charge three times the amount for a ticket because it's a popular brand. Star Wars tix cost the same as the latest cheapy indie horror film, because the playing field is level.<br /><br />The big problem is: when publishers cease making big money on paper sales, they'll need to continue to cover overhead somehow. Ebook prices may go up. But bestsellers will see a sharp decline in sales when they aren't in every Walmart. So their advances will come down. If that happens, they'll pay more attention to earning out, and giving a publisher 50% to 75% of net for ebook sales makes no sense anymore. <br /><br />That's why Authors United wants the DOJ to step in. They need to protect their advances, or risk huge cuts in income. JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-71929276502725137412015-09-06T16:53:04.415-05:002015-09-06T16:53:04.415-05:00Dear Blogger. Please provide an edit function for ...<i>Dear Blogger. Please provide an edit function for comments. Most of your competitors do...</i><br /><br />No shit. I've been tempted to switch to Wordpress, but I've got 1000 posts here, and god knows how many comments and links to those posts, and I don't want to split up my readers with a new URL. As advanced as Google is, you think they'd pimp out their blog options.JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-73377710592825207482015-09-06T11:57:07.179-05:002015-09-06T11:57:07.179-05:00I almost always buy used copies of my favorite 1% ...<i>I almost always buy used copies of my favorite 1% authors. Always have. I get them at used books stores, Goodwill, yard sales, etc. I don't need the book as soon as it hits the shelves. I'm a patient guy.</i><br /><br />I do this a lot too, but in the end we're an insignificant market force beyond helping out the used bookstores and fueling sales to libraries. <br /><br /><i>I stare at a computer screen all day as well. Go to sleep each night reading my Kindle, which is nothing like a computer screen to me but more like a paperback book on steroids. Convenient because I don't need a light on to read and because I have hundreds of books stored on the Kindle, so lots of choices.</i><br /><br />I've tried to read at bed in night with the lights out, but I get sleepy right away. That's probably a good thing. The last thing I need to do is train my body to stay awake at night while in bed in the dark. <br /><br />I've talked to people who are all-in with their e-readers and have switched completely, but I also know people who have an e-reader and still mostly read paper books. It will be interesting to see what happens, but I suspect there's still a strong market for paper books. <br /><br />And for whatever reason, ebooks seem more like throwaway items. I take no pleasure in owning an ebook -- I'm like that with many physical books, too. I use Scribd and read most of my ebooks there. Scribd has a very nice selection. Mark Asherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13758940020912520294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-10082714457413448392015-09-06T11:30:27.687-05:002015-09-06T11:30:27.687-05:00I almost always buy used copies of my favorite 1% ...I almost always buy used copies of my favorite 1% authors. Always have. I get them at used books stores, Goodwill, yard sales, etc. I don't need the book as soon as it hits the shelves. I'm a patient guy. <br /><br />By the way, my list of favorite big 5 authors is diminishing as indies come to the forefront. So many books, so little time.<br /><br />I do the same with most movies. I wait for them to come out on video or netflix. <br /><br />I absolutely will not pay extortion prices for ebooks, and I know a lot of people who feel the same. <br /><br />I'm no expert, but I can't help but feel that eventually high ebook prices will put the hurt on some of those big 5 authors. <br /><br /> Mark Edward Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09348437062900925019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-30069480555722435682015-09-06T11:01:42.714-05:002015-09-06T11:01:42.714-05:00"Although if the Big Five continues to adhere...<i>"Although if the Big Five continues to adhere to a high-priced ebook strategy, and continues to rely on insights as fresh and useful as those in this Wall Street Journal article, the more relevant rubric might be Elisabeth Kübler-Ross’s anger, denial, bargaining, depression, acceptance."</i><br /><br />Barry, <br /><br />You left out the final stage: <b>Death</b>. :)James F. Brownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-42734455552372336752015-09-06T10:55:42.804-05:002015-09-06T10:55:42.804-05:00Dear Blogger. Please provide an edit function for ...Dear Blogger. Please provide an edit function for comments. Most of your competitors do...Rob Gregory Brownehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06968450001009529697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-5493232595904107092015-09-06T10:54:44.799-05:002015-09-06T10:54:44.799-05:00I just realized another reason why I've gravit...<i>I just realized another reason why I've gravitated back to paper books. I spend all day at my job looking at a computer screen. It's refreshing to block out all electronic devices and read the old-fashioned way.</i><br /><br />I stare at a computer screen all day as well. Go to sleep each night reading my Kindle, which is nothing like a computer screen to me but more like a paperback book on steroids. Convenient because I don't need a light on to read and because I have hundreds of books stored on the Kindle, so lots of choices.<br /><br />I don't think I've cracked open a paper book since getting a Paperwhite, unless the book wasn't available digitally. To each his own.Rob Gregory Brownehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06968450001009529697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-47112890134201057102015-09-06T10:52:31.358-05:002015-09-06T10:52:31.358-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Rob Gregory Brownehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06968450001009529697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-81028632606836030762015-09-06T10:47:49.291-05:002015-09-06T10:47:49.291-05:00that the publisher and therefore author are gettin...<i>that the publisher and therefore author are getting diddly squat in terms of royalty.</i><br /><br />That's something I don't think I've ever brought up on this blog. How much does the used market take away from the new market? Obviously the higher the initial cost, the more the second hand market thrives because it offers the same book for less. In finding that sweet spot for book pricing, how much money is the Big 5 giving up because some diehard fans wait to buy used copies?<br /><br />JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-79171973463492687722015-09-06T07:17:03.098-05:002015-09-06T07:17:03.098-05:00It's funny how 99% of the big corporations bec...It's funny how 99% of the big corporations become members of the Captain Obvious fan club when it comes to basic economics 101, when they express shock (SHOCK!) over the fact that high prices mean low volume.<br /><br />Then you have the 1% and every smart member of the general public who realizes that low prices means more product bought. Just like if you go to a grocery store. If you have choice between a well known chain that has all the amenities (like Shaw's and Stop & Shop here in New England), and a chain that is pretty much stripped down (like Aldi's or Price Rite here in New England) and whose prices are often 33% less than the commercial chains, where would shop?<br /><br />Same concept applies to books. If you had a choice between good quality/low end (Amazon/Smashwords) or good quality/ridiculously high end (everyone else), where would you shop?<br /><br /><a href="http://gbmjrflashy.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Father Nature's Corner</a>G. B. Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09783331838434598963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-12092788437665866162015-09-06T07:14:13.633-05:002015-09-06T07:14:13.633-05:00I haven't stopped buying Connolly and Child bo...I haven't stopped buying Connolly and Child books and the like despite the eye-wateringly high ebook prices the publishers set. I just wait for however long it takes to either borrow from a friend or library or until they're in the charity shop for £2. Which essentially means, unless it's a library loan, that the publisher and therefore author are getting diddly squat in terms of royalty.Eden Sharphttp://www.edensharp.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-77541229484259729202015-09-05T22:52:30.676-05:002015-09-05T22:52:30.676-05:00It's my observation that B&N is starting t...<i>It's my observation that B&N is starting to look more like a gift store and the book sections of the big box stores I've visited (including target) has shrunk considerably.</i><br /><br />But for people who buy 5-6 books a year, this is still adequate. Even for more avid readers who prefer paper, B&N is likely adequate. They still carry a lot of books. <br /><br />Anyway, I really don't know what's going on with the brick and mortar bookstores. Are they dying? It seems like the initial introduction of ebooks killed some, but now things seem to have stabilized. <br /><br />I hope they don't die. I've spent many enjoyable hours in a bookstore, chatting with the employees and often chatting with strangers about books. I'd hate to see them vanish. <br /><br />I just realized another reason why I've gravitated back to paper books. I spend all day at my job looking at a computer screen. It's refreshing to block out all electronic devices and read the old-fashioned way.Mark Asherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13758940020912520294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-42460015219922560162015-09-05T19:26:11.875-05:002015-09-05T19:26:11.875-05:00No, Joshua, the average reader is not as loyal as ...No, Joshua, the average reader is not as loyal as you. The "true fans" don't make up the bulk of any bestseller's sales. It's the thousands of people rushing through an airport who needed something to read on the 8:50 to Dallas/Ft. Worth. They grabbed the Koontz off the display and threw money at the clerk because it was there. But they could have easily picked up the Oprah magazine because it was closer. Or bought gum and paid the flight attendant to watch two episodes of "Everybody Loves Raymond." The next time Koontz releases a book, these people are not going to go looking for it. <br /><br />Koontz fans will have already bought the book on their tablet the night before, but there are far fewer of them than the ones who picked him because he was available. Athena Graysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14664024252326650321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-59589356151493052942015-09-05T17:12:30.843-05:002015-09-05T17:12:30.843-05:00I think "new author" is the key phrase. ...I think "new author" is the key phrase. Like most voracious readers, I have a handful of favorite authors whose annual offerings I want badly enough to pay the outrageous price the publishers stick on the books. Trying a new author, no matter who publishes her, regardless of rave reviews, is a whole different matter.<br /><br />Also, am I the only one? I don't want paper at any price. After living for years inundated by piles of books, I've finally cleaned out my library to a few bookcases with reference books and favorites I reread. I don't want more paper. If I can't get the book at a price I think is reasonable, I can get traditionally published books from the library - and do.Ellen O'Connellhttp://www.oconnellauthor.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-64124099660164865882015-09-05T16:58:17.698-05:002015-09-05T16:58:17.698-05:00"Some bestsellers sell well at that price The..."Some bestsellers sell well at that price The other 99% of the titles the big publishers offer don't sell nearly as well at that price. Those authors--99% of them--would be much better off on their own, self-publishing."<br /><br />I didn't say that these trad pub ebooks that are on the best-selling list didn't come without a sacrifice. <br /><br />Of course you're right Joe, many many bestsellers would be better off on their own. <br /><br />Still, we could be fair players. In 2010 even you, I think, wouldn't have believed that the bestseller list of 2014 would be filled with trad published ebooks at such a price. <br /><br />"When those sales venues--the ubiquitous bricks and mortar stores--disappear, watch how quickly the old white men on the NYT list lose fans."<br /><br />Joe, the bestseller list I linked to is an ebook list. I'm not so much convinced paper books are so important to the people who buy on these lists. Yes, paper books in bricks and mortar store act as a permanent advertisement for these books. They also reinforce the "legitimacy" of the books. But the people who have the motivation to buy at those prices are more often than not fans. They will find a way to find the ebooks of their favorite authors. <br /><br />Like Joshua, I think readers' loyalty shouldn't be underestimated.<br /><br />Besides, should we really hope that B&N goes under? Amazon's competition must survive. It's our only option as independant authors if we want to keep some freedom. <br /><br />If I think that indie authors will prevail in the end, it's because of the passing of generations and the rise of the ebook. More and more authors will become hybrid authors, and the publishers won't be able to build such strong brands in the future as the ones who populate the 2014 bestseller list. <br /><br />It will be for the better, because I believe a bestseller list with a high turnover is a more natural and healthy one than what we have today, which resembles to a pyramid built over the corpses of many authors. Alan Spadehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12265515535005420739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-16338665029220193372015-09-05T16:30:47.503-05:002015-09-05T16:30:47.503-05:00I know Borders is gone but B&N is still around...<i> I know Borders is gone but B&N is still around. The big box stores (Sam's, Target, etc.) all carry books.</i><br /><br />It's my observation that B&N is starting to look more like a gift store and the book sections of the big box stores I've visited (including target) has shrunk considerably.Rob Gregory Brownehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06968450001009529697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-69530859160161837662015-09-05T16:28:20.511-05:002015-09-05T16:28:20.511-05:00Joe keeps the pushing the notion that readers who ...<i>Joe keeps the pushing the notion that readers who would typically pay $12.99 for a brand-name author's ebook will soon instead take that $12.99 and buy four cheap indie ebooks that resemble the name-brand author's product--and I just can't see that happening. </i><br /><br />Based on the conversations I've had with readers, it already is happening.Rob Gregory Brownehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06968450001009529697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-29100584192729622242015-09-05T16:25:05.005-05:002015-09-05T16:25:05.005-05:00But not a hell of a lot of readers will pay $25 fo...<i> But not a hell of a lot of readers will pay $25 for someone they've never heard of. But $3.99 or $4.99 or $1.99? Sure. Pocket change. I've noted a number of trends in my ebook buying, and one is my willingness to try a new author if the price is low enough.</i><br /><br />I had this argument with a publisher when one of my books was released. I told them, even if you only reduce the price of the ebook for a couple weeks, that will make readers more willing to try lesser known name. But no, they said, that would be against corporate policy.<br /><br />Sigh.Rob Gregory Brownehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06968450001009529697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-66308161699472569052015-09-05T13:22:39.080-05:002015-09-05T13:22:39.080-05:00"When those sales venues--the ubiquitous bric..."When those sales venues--the ubiquitous bricks and mortar stores--disappear, watch how quickly the old white men on the NYT list lose fans. They won't be able to maintain unit sales numbers, or gross profit. Their sales, and gross, will drop dramatically."<br /><br />So reader loyalty means nothing? The massive sales of the same handful of "old white men" who have dominated the bestseller lists for decades is based entirely on indiscriminate readers who are looking for a book--any book--and thus purchase a Koontz, King, Patterson, etc, because those just happen to be the books most readily available? I don't doubt that wide distribution has contributed to those successes, but millions of readers wouldn't keep coming back for the product if they didn't enjoy the product, regardless of how ubiquitous the product is. <br /> <br />In the realm of fast food, I prefer Arby's to McDonald's, even though McDonald's is less expensive and has many, many more locations--and is thus the more accessible option. So given a choice between the McDonald's across the street or the Arby's eight miles away, I'll do what's more expensive and less convenient to get what I want. Most people will. Is it really different for readers? <br /><br />For example, I've been reading Dean Koontz since I was 19, a little over a decade ago, and I imagine I'll just as eagerly pay his publisher's inflated prices for each new title a decade from now as I do today. If his books suddenly disappeared from Amazon, Wal-Mart, Target, CVS, major grocery store chains, and the few remaining brick-and-mortar bookstores, I'd happily pay Koontz to mail me the books himself, even if they were scribbled in crayon and distributed from his attic. Sure, you can buy Koontz anywhere and everywhere these days, just as you could ten years ago, but ease of access didn't earn my loyalty--it was the product. A product that can be duplicated to some degree, yes--but who wants to buy an off-brand that kinda/sorta tastes like what they're looking for when they can have exactly what they want for a few bucks more? <br /><br />Joe keeps the pushing the notion that readers who would typically pay $12.99 for a brand-name author's ebook will soon instead take that $12.99 and buy four cheap indie ebooks that resemble the name-brand author's product--and I just can't see that happening. With only the most casual, undiscerning readers, maybe, but not real fans. Maybe you have a Koontz-like $2.99 indie that's a great read in its own right, and maybe I'll buy it and enjoy it. But will I choose you over Koontz just because your product is less expensive? Absolutely not. In the end, maybe I buy both books. But Bantam Books still gets my $12.99. Every time.<br /><br />Is the average reader as loyal as me? I'm not sure. But the idea that readers will abandon their favorite authors just because someone else does something similar cheaper is laughable. Is the real Koontz, King, Patterson, Preston/Child, etc, losing fans because fraudulent indie authors are attempting to cash in on those large readerships with deceptive pen names? Of course not. The "old white men" aren't going anywhere, and where their books are sold and how much their publishers charge for the product isn't going to change that. After all, there's has to be a reason why these guys continue to flourish even with hefty price points while the John Lockes and Amanda Hockings (no disrespect intended to either) have mostly faded from the conversation.Joshua Simcoxnoreply@blogger.com