tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post6442038642182739815..comments2024-03-18T06:16:18.802-05:00Comments on A Newbie's Guide to Publishing: What's Wrong With Sex?JA Konrathhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comBlogger245125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-78866230484623936622012-02-01T00:20:18.112-06:002012-02-01T00:20:18.112-06:00What we are dealing with is age old churchy indoct...What we are dealing with is age old churchy indoctrination where sex is seen as shameful, dirty, hidden! We live in a world where the taking of a life on TV can be watched by a small child, but the making of a life is seen as obscene. Where people suffer from porn addiction because they never see a naked person. A world where half the population is trying to lose weight while the other half is starving. There is absolutely nothing wrong with including sex in a story, as we've all come into this world like that, if conceived naturally. Whoever has a problem with a well written sensual scene has a problem with life. Can we move on the discussion please: What's your favourite sensual scene? Anaîs Nin anybody? Henry Miller? One of your own, Mr Konrath?D.C.Gallinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792631712630091428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-68436755055396509752011-12-06T08:33:43.750-06:002011-12-06T08:33:43.750-06:00I feel your pain, Joe. I write erotic romance. Her...I feel your pain, Joe. I write erotic romance. Here's an example of what happens frequently with me. Out of a 292 page novel I have 4 sex scenes, the longest of which is 2 pages. The rest of the pages are filled with a solid plot, including a good heaping of violence. (Because this story involves werewolves.)No one complained about the violence, but I've got a neighbor who thinks I'm the devil. She goes around telling everyone I write "GD-porn." (Her words, not mine. I prefer not to abreviate.) I kid you not. I think it's ridiculous. There's nothing wrong with sex as long as it moves the story forward and is well-written. I plan to keep on writing "GD-porn." I love what I do.Tracey H. Kittshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13896030864732936498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-11017466414539344442011-12-06T08:25:29.613-06:002011-12-06T08:25:29.613-06:00I feel your pain, Joe. I write erotic romance. Out...I feel your pain, Joe. I write erotic romance. Out of a 292 page novel I had 4 sex scenes, the longest of which was 2 pages. The rest of the book was solid plot and a great big heaping of violence (because my stories involve werewolves). No one complained about the violence, but I have a neighbor who thinks I'm the devil. She goes around telling everyone I write "GD-porn." I kid you not. I think it's ridiculous. There's nothing wrong with sex as long as the scene moves the story forward. I plan to keep on writing "GD-porn." I love what I do.Tracey H. Kittshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13896030864732936498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-71264404812937468272011-09-13T16:46:25.859-05:002011-09-13T16:46:25.859-05:00Personally, I skip over sex scenes unless they are...Personally, I skip over sex scenes unless they are essential for the story-line. One writer that gets me interested in sex scenes is JD Robb (Nora Roberts) with her sci-fi homicide detective. <br /><br />Otherwise if I want to read erotica, I'll go and get it. One sex scene does not ruin a book in my opinion if there is a lot of cuddling. ;-)<br /><br />BUT when there are four, five, or six scenes, I draw the line. And yes, that might impact my ability to buy another book from that author.<br /><br />CynCyn Bagleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08404416186783891402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-30530990922301252102011-09-13T14:53:12.521-05:002011-09-13T14:53:12.521-05:00Amy -- you're certainly entitled to your opini...Amy -- you're certainly entitled to your opinion and it's valid for you, but when you use phrases like "all your readers," you're speaking for me (and everyone else) as well. Please don't do that.<br /><br />AngieAngiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920578701763415331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1428677451981881642011-09-13T07:00:12.938-05:002011-09-13T07:00:12.938-05:00Joe:
The reason your readers got angry is that you...Joe:<br />The reason your readers got angry is that you broke faith with them. Now, you're not a "safe buy" anymore. Those who prefer the bedroom door closed won't be able to buy your books, feeling secure in the knowledge that you won't go all erotica on them.<br /><br />At this point, all your readers are going to be nervous about buying you. Your original fans won't know if the next book spends pages on erotic material or not. They'll have to start reading all the comments to try to determine that, especially if they dislike open bedroom doors.<br /><br />You'll get new readers, but the same goes for them. They like the bedroom door open and expect it. If they try to read your older books, they'll be disappointed. So you won't be a "safe buy" for them, either, because they'll be constantly disappointed.<br /><br />For me, I definitely prefer the bedroom door closed. I'll make everyone angry, but the truth of the matter is that there is nothing done in a sex scene that can't be done with the bedroom door closed, or done with the scene whittled down to a sentence or two.<br /><br />And frankly, sex ruins the sexual tension because it releases it. Then, you have to work even harder to get that tension back up again. And because of that, it has a tendency of slowing down/diverting the plot because the author spends all his time: building up to the sex scene; having the sex scene; recovering from the sex scene; rebuilding tension. <br /><br />You only have so many pages. If the book's major thrust (excuse the pun) is sex, e.g. erotica, then that's fine. If it's something else, then...well, that's the problem, isn't it? How many pages are you willing to waste just to get characters into bed and recover from it? Just to give the reader some tidbit of info or show some character development that could have been done in a few paragraphs without the sex scene?<br /><br />Then there's the whole "yuck" issue and personal preferences. What is erotic to one reader is just plain "gross" to another.<br /><br />As I always say, if I'd rather have sex (with my husband) than read about it.<br /><br />But there you are. That's why your readers got upset. They can't just do an auto-buy you anymore.<br /><br />Oh, well. Sorry, didn't mean to write a dissertation here. LOL<br /><br />Amy Corwin<br />http://www.amycorwin.comAmyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18122506895024303225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-88516074271538322942011-09-03T14:09:11.934-05:002011-09-03T14:09:11.934-05:00Sex should be treated as an essential part of life...Sex should be treated as an essential part of life and relationships in fiction. Skipping it is prudish, I think.<br />Over detailed and mechanical it can become tedious like any other 'over description'.D.C.Gallinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15792631712630091428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-18897816329197934822011-08-31T16:30:56.157-05:002011-08-31T16:30:56.157-05:00i love sex in any shape or form :)i love sex in any shape or form :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-47843410683907229042011-08-31T16:28:48.372-05:002011-08-31T16:28:48.372-05:00I have no problem with sex (explicit or implied) i...I have no problem with sex (explicit or implied) if it moves the story along. If it's just there on the off chance that it might sell a few more copies then I'm bugged by that. Not the sex itself, but the manipulative nature behind just writing it to sell. Like everything else in a novel, it should be important to the story.<br /><br />It's kinda like the old joke about 24. When does Jack Bauer go to the bathroom? Such a scene if not moving the plot forward would be a nuisance to the reader/viewer. So, bring on the sex scene if it moves the plot forward.<br /><br />Amazing a hold such an opinion and yet, I'm one of those crazy, radical, born again, evangelical Christians. Go figure.Stephen Deanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09313160450564788091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-9137822652312167382011-08-29T04:40:00.927-05:002011-08-29T04:40:00.927-05:00Great post. I write erotica, so you'd expect p...Great post. I write erotica, so you'd expect people to know what they are getting, but I had a bad review that said although the story was good and the characters realistic, the book was "just one sex scene after another".<br /><br />And the point is? :-)<br /><br />I agree with you that as a society we are more than willing to accept a level of violence and brutality that is unbelievable, but if one of our characters shows their genitals then god help us all.jt Hardinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13841315563524470630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-8560273259247531472011-08-28T22:38:49.569-05:002011-08-28T22:38:49.569-05:00Sex scenes are great. I say bring them on. When ...Sex scenes are great. I say bring them on. When I get hate mail for writing sex scenes, I kindly suggest the reader find an author who doesn't write sex into their books. <br /><br />That all being said, I have written three books with no sex scenes in them, but it wasn't because someone told me to leave the sex out.Ruth Ann Nordinhttp://www.ruthannnordin.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-17531033916386353212011-08-28T10:24:17.612-05:002011-08-28T10:24:17.612-05:00Even though sex in books is popular, I think there...Even though sex in books is popular, I think there will always be a certain level of stigma attached to it. My book isn't as popular in the States as it is over here in the U.K. where people are more open about sexual content.LK Wattshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09366991733427612418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-2207198688960558762011-08-26T22:13:33.095-05:002011-08-26T22:13:33.095-05:00That’s a good logical eye you have, Angie, and I c...That’s a good logical eye you have, Angie, and I commend you. I always wonder when someone will bring this up. But it’s actually an ancient idiomatic expression that has a slightly different meaning. There’s a decent explanation of it here: <br /><br />http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/exception-that-proves-the-rule.html<br /><br />In the context of my remark, the “exception” to talking about roller-coasters is another profoundly emotional thing (like sex), the immediate death of a loved-one. So the point is, simply, that what appears to be an exception isn’t one at all, which is what proves the rule.W. Deanhttp://platoshead.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-50479323171483096512011-08-26T17:03:37.663-05:002011-08-26T17:03:37.663-05:00which is the exception that proves the rule
Excep...<i>which is the exception that proves the rule</i><br /><br />Exceptions don't prove rules. Exceptions demonstrate that the rule is wrong, or at least that it needs to be modified in a non-trivial way.<br /><br />AngieAngiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11920578701763415331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-52334401473109328372011-08-26T14:04:12.616-05:002011-08-26T14:04:12.616-05:00“…dinner party with a bunch of people who like to ...<i> “…dinner party with a bunch of people who like to share explicit stories…” </i><br /><br />I didn’t claim that no one has parties where it’s appropriate. I was observing that no one, at any party (whether it includes sex or not) will object to, say, a rollercoaster-ridding story. Sure, it might bore people. But no one will kick you out because they think it’s inappropriate (unless, for example, someone close just died on one, which is the exception that proves the rule). <br /><br />On the other hand, the only place you can talk explicit sex is on occasions where it’s explicitly invited. My point was that this fact (call it a taboo) should tell all of us that we all recognize that there’s something different about sex.W. Deanhttp://platoshead.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-5907020202942030692011-08-26T00:17:56.921-05:002011-08-26T00:17:56.921-05:00I got emails from total strangers asking if they c...I got emails from total strangers asking if they could see my private parts. Hello, what? I guess it can't hurt to ask right?<br /><br />W. Dean, okay so I'm at the dinner party with a bunch of people who like to share explicit stories of sexual conquest. Your experiment fails in this case. They are waiting to hear more. <br /><br />In most cases where all the gathering folk are adults, sex will come up. Now I'm not going to tell most people in "polite" adult company how my husband likes to give it to me in whatever manner works for us, but where consenting adults are sex is a topic. In some circumstances in people's lives, they might give the down and dirty details. <br /><br />There are some "liberated" people who love to tell stories of their sexual conquests. Hell, sitcoms these days make major characters out of just these types. ie. Barney from How I Met Your Mother or Charlie from Two and a Half Men.<br /><br /><i>My rule is no matter how well it's written if the scene makes the writer hard (or wet) it's bad writing. Not sure why that is but it's true.</i><br /><br />How do you know that a certain passage turned a writer on? How does the writer know that it will turn the reader on? Some people can read a rape scene and get turned on. Did the writer mean it that way? Probably not, but if there is something you've fantasized about, someone wrote fiction about it online.<br /><br />I love writing sex. I have a shit load of hang-ups about sex. When you have adults interacting, you have sex.asraihttp://comingalive.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-27353844921619490612011-08-25T15:31:31.263-05:002011-08-25T15:31:31.263-05:00That's pretty wild. I would guess readers who ...That's pretty wild. I would guess readers who are familiar with your work must have expected a fade-black scene and were jarred when it never faded? Unless the sex was horribly violent or something, I don't understand adults having a problem with it. <br /><br />I have one 'sex' scene in my first book. It is very tame and fades to black, and yet I still had someone complaining about it. It was a head-scratcher for me, because when I mentioned the review to some friends who'd read the book, they were like, "What sex scene? You mean there was a sex scene?" <br /><br />I guess there will always be people who have issues with anything beyond a chaste kiss.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13267066733031149882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-28430151039734153182011-08-25T11:00:58.944-05:002011-08-25T11:00:58.944-05:00A lot of people seem to be having trouble adapting...A lot of people seem to be having trouble adapting to the fact that self-publishing ebooks changes publishing social norms. <br /><br />How many times have I read in various articles and blogs where with self-publishing, "We can write about whatever the hell we want." Then some of those same people seem surprised when someone actually does.<br /><br />All new genres and sub-genres will be created and will find a following. Change is hard, but you gotta embrace it!Wernerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13177999875649895318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-72952577536612660222011-08-25T10:11:27.959-05:002011-08-25T10:11:27.959-05:00I have a bit different take on the pseudonym for s...I have a bit different take on the pseudonym for sex writing discussion.<br /><br />I've published all my porn, er, "erotica" under my own name (except for when I was writing on Literotica). But my sales have been less than spectacular.<br /><br />The thing is I feel that I'm writing for women. Many of my stories are told from a woman's point of view. In reading puravida's comment I realized where my marketing problem might be.<br /><br />Perhaps I need to publish under a female pseudonym because women don't expect a mere man, especially one with a hoity toity name like "Stanfield Major", to be capable of writing from their point of view.Stanfield Majorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11732445747292473421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-27920203777578921032011-08-25T10:01:05.418-05:002011-08-25T10:01:05.418-05:00Joe, its not so much people dont like it in fictio...Joe, its not so much people dont like it in fiction, as its jarring I think to people that read sci-fi or fantasy. Its not a stable of the genre, more off the page as you mentioned in your post. I admit I'm always surprised when I read fantasy and the character uses a real curse word. Because I'm not used to seeing it. It seem odd for an elf to use the F bomb, lol.Kiaranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-50411893434313354532011-08-24T22:55:14.197-05:002011-08-24T22:55:14.197-05:00I like it when it works and is part of the story. ...I like it when it works and is part of the story. Recently read the Nights Dawn trilogy and some scenes fit right in and a few others felt sort of forced.<br /><br />Overall though, it worked.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04219926035493246233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-4254492390565513172011-08-24T21:03:12.816-05:002011-08-24T21:03:12.816-05:00The first fact is that sexual desire is one of our...<i>The first fact is that sexual desire is one of our prime motivators. It’s involved in (or shapes) much of what we do. (You covered Freud right?)</i><br /><br />Ah this is where we really differ. I'm far more Jungian-leaning. ;)<br /><br />As for this: <br /><br /><i>"Sex is to psychopathology what drug abuse is to crime."</i><br /><br />No. Sex is to SEXUAL psychopathology what drug abuse is to crime. Maybe. Sometimes. <br /><br />All pathology does not have its roots in sex. Freud was wrong too.<br /><br />I imagine he had a tiny little penis... and a very ugly mother. <br /><br />But I will give you this:<br /><br /><i>...sex stories affect people in a deeper and a more unpredictable way than other stories... </i><br /><br />Indeed they do - just not for the reason you stated. The reasons are numerous and they aren't so simple. Neither is the world. And we could debate that forever. But I've got boxes to unpack and a novel to finish...<br /><br />Thanks for the brief diversion though! ;)Selena Kitthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17783685215421352626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-78223382769031274732011-08-24T18:30:59.617-05:002011-08-24T18:30:59.617-05:00I would love more sex in fiction - but like you sa...I would love more sex in fiction - but like you said, only if it serves the plot.<br /><br />Well, to a degree ... one might also want to show some explicit sex just to set a certain mood that matches the type of story or genre, or make the relationship between two characters seem more real or whatever. But I guess in those examples sex serves a story-related purpose, too - and is not just 'sex for the sake of sex'.<br /><br />Apropos: I wish there'd be real sex in mainstream movies. Then porn would probably be reduced to a niche for the more, ahem, extreme preferences. But that's probably a long, long way off. <br /><br />Just like with (your) books, it seems people are more comfortable with watching people being stabbed, shot, tortured, etc., than people fucking for love or just pleasure.<br /><br />Or so they say... I wonder how many of those people have *never* EVER watched porn, then - esp. on the net? I probably won't exhaust myself counting ... <br /><br />But in any case: As long as this set of priorities prevails - 'showing killing OK' - 'showing fucking NOT OK' - it's gonna be very difficult to have a more peaceful world...Christopher Marcushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03077904474530085769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-48227598500796611432011-08-24T18:12:00.086-05:002011-08-24T18:12:00.086-05:00The story does not need 399,994 of those words bec...<i>The story does not need 399,994 of those words because it could be stated simply as I came, I saw, I conquered. However, that story has already been told, and without a sex scene.</i><br /><br />Well yeah. With a sex scene those words would be in a different order, with the first phrase last.Alastair Mayerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12696370485698567095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-83261334635304632952011-08-24T16:23:52.142-05:002011-08-24T16:23:52.142-05:00Wow.
My rule is no matter how well it's writt...Wow.<br /><br /><i>My rule is no matter how well it's written if the scene makes the writer hard (or wet) it's bad writing. Not sure why that is but it's true.</i><br /><br />It is not true. Try this simple exercise:<br /><br />"No matter how well it's written, if the scene makes the writer cry, it's bad."<br /><br />"No matter how well it's written, if the scene makes the writer laugh, it's bad."<br /><br />I can't even think of how you arrived at a point where you think a writer being affected by his own work is indicative of bad writing.<br /><br />If you misspoke, and meant "reader," you're even more fundamentally wrong. The entire point of literature is to tell a story that engages the reader. If the writer achieved the intended effect, the writer won.<br /><br />If you meant that sexual arousal is somehow "different" from any other emotional effect, you have the same problem as W.Dean, which is attempting to say that the writing and reading of sexual content is in some way bad. <br /><br />It's not.Kathleen Diennehttp://kathleendienne.comnoreply@blogger.com