tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post5793027741163294674..comments2024-03-28T02:00:11.260-05:00Comments on A Newbie's Guide to Publishing: Interview with Editor Susan TunisJA Konrathhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-4788175557516609652012-01-11T17:59:52.512-06:002012-01-11T17:59:52.512-06:00Wow, the last 24 hours have been crazy busy! I ne...Wow, the last 24 hours have been crazy busy! I needed to step away from the computer and get some actual work done. However, I have been sneaking glances at the discussion here. I'll try to rejoin the conversation a bit later tonight. <br /><br />For now, I just wanted to say, Thank you, Elle. You're so awesome.Susan Tunishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03837526940999465957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-27570565562596340482012-01-11T13:21:01.926-06:002012-01-11T13:21:01.926-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Trickaduuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14378420155560168998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-67951793441274754422012-01-11T12:45:41.874-06:002012-01-11T12:45:41.874-06:00I just read Boyd Morrison's comment, and--YES!...I just read Boyd Morrison's comment, and--YES! Susan has an uncanny ability to spot continuity errors that are hundreds of pages apart, even innocuous ones that don't necessarily impact the plot. She will say, "The main character's brother's mailman's friend's car is green on page 4 and it's white on page 425." It's a version of eidetic memory that is mind-boggling! I have no idea how she does this...<br /><br />I give workshops and presentations on e-publishing several times a month, and never fail to recommend Susan for editing services to attendees.Elle Lothlorienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07748852500475060672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-24629861981582258022012-01-11T12:44:43.610-06:002012-01-11T12:44:43.610-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Elle Lothlorienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07748852500475060672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-43901241491362732522012-01-11T12:38:00.816-06:002012-01-11T12:38:00.816-06:00I should've used her to edit my Google profile...I should've used her to edit my Google profile so my name would have been spelled right in the above comment. Sigh.Elle Lothlorienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07748852500475060672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-25155456654487674472012-01-11T12:35:32.822-06:002012-01-11T12:35:32.822-06:00Susan Tunis has edited both of my self-published r...Susan Tunis has edited both of my self-published romantic comedies (the first of which, THE FROG PRINCE, became an Amazon best-seller), and she is an incredibly talented and thorough editor who, as I like to say, "is never afraid to criticize with gusto." She will make your book a better one, but I will caution you that she is a true, professional editor. In other words, gird your loins; you're not paying her to tell her what a literary genius you are, but how your novel can be improved. If you're not prepared for a "real" editorial critique, have your mother read it and give you feedback instead. ;-)Elle Lothlorienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07748852500475060672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-77714179292646669462012-01-11T12:11:48.706-06:002012-01-11T12:11:48.706-06:00Since independent authors write with no guaranteed...Since independent authors write with no guaranteed up-front payment themselves; and starting out authors are the least likely to have sales yet the most need of an editor's care .. what percent and cap would be appealing? Example: 2% of the books sales until $500 cap is achieved? Or 5% or $300? Or what might be the number? Not talking the editor is deep into it like "author #2 rewrite" on the project, but fixes the first read-through things noted above (light grammar and logic problems: "how did he call Rose in chapter 2 without the phone number he didn't find until chapter 12?").jvin248https://www.blogger.com/profile/12150999139115251710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-15271776287978338832012-01-11T09:47:33.733-06:002012-01-11T09:47:33.733-06:00The more of a commercial fiction deity Rowling bec...<i>The more of a commercial fiction deity Rowling became...the less and less she seemed to have been edited.</i><br /><br />One of the stranger things in book publishing is the idea that the bigger an author gets, the more he or she "earns" the right to <i>less</i> editing. (Stephen King is the classic and oft-cited example.) I've never understood this. I would hope that if I became as big as Rowling or King, I'd earn the right to monopolize the time of my publishing house's rock-star red-penners.Jim Thomsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16436505068478971925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-83026512336181829522012-01-11T08:39:40.185-06:002012-01-11T08:39:40.185-06:00Tim
I've e-mailed with Lynn and her services ...Tim<br /><br />I've e-mailed with Lynn and her services and rates seem exceptional. I'm still shopping but she's my front runner right now. She was referred to me by Stepehen Knight and I would look at her and her gang if you're in the market.David L. Shutterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08357694121376734716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-35000373955630459322012-01-11T08:30:04.555-06:002012-01-11T08:30:04.555-06:00My current project is non-fiction, but I can pass ...My current project is non-fiction, but I can pass this along to some folks I know will be interested. Thanks.Kelly Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01752857506190488860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-12437381809938707662012-01-11T08:14:01.508-06:002012-01-11T08:14:01.508-06:00That's a good point, David. Just because an au...That's a good point, David. Just because an author <i>thinks</i> s/he doesn't need much editing doesn't mean that's truly the case. And just because an author makes extensive changes based on editorial suggestions doesn't mean s/he needs to go back to Craft 101.<br /><br />To me, it's all about making the finished product as good as it can possibly be. You have to put your ego on the back burner sometimes and carve away everything that isn't Story. You have to "kill your darlings," as Faulkner suggested.Jude Hardinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09994813046526310594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-12514969334562988082012-01-11T07:41:23.475-06:002012-01-11T07:41:23.475-06:00Most people would say they are among the greatest ...<i>Most people would say they are among the greatest writers of the 20th century, yet they were heavily edited. Hmm...</i><br /><br />The more of a commercial fiction <i>deity</i> Rowling became...the less and less she seemed to have been edited. Books 6 & 7 could have been trimmed down quite a bit. IMHO.David L. Shutterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08357694121376734716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-21392527511751200922012-01-11T05:41:17.178-06:002012-01-11T05:41:17.178-06:00I use Red Adept Editing, and they are excellent. ...I use Red Adept Editing, and they are excellent. I would not hesitate to send folks toward Lynn and her able and gifted crew of editors.<br /><br />http://redadeptreviews.com/editing-services/Tim Myershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13484735430584842915noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-4507371800883814162012-01-11T00:31:15.946-06:002012-01-11T00:31:15.946-06:00I think it's great that you are so reasonable,...I think it's great that you are so reasonable, Susan. Truth be told, my work is too lengthy for me to afford and editor at this stage of my (building) career. Since my work typically hovers between 120k-230k words, it would be quite costly. <br /><br />Once my financials improve, however, I know where to turn. Best of luck to you!Ramonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13713895571283292413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-90163934038086408002012-01-10T20:55:56.290-06:002012-01-10T20:55:56.290-06:00I didn't mean for us to get hung up on this.
...I didn't mean for us to get hung up on this. <br /><br />Let me make clear that I have occasionally sent back manuscripts to would-be clients and said, "Sorry, but as much as I'd love to take your money, this book just isn't ready for me." I'd offer a few notes, and tell them that if they want more, in more detail, I'd be happy to take on THAT job.<br /><br />In such cases, I get the impression that I'm looking at a first draft, and the writer didn't want to take a second run without at least some rudimentary feedback.<br /><br />And then I offer to refer them to somebody who's better at developmental editing than I am. This comes up maybe 5% of the time, in my experience.<br /><br />But I think it's good to line up as many fresh eyes as you can use. I always recommend at least three: One set of eyes from a story editor/beta reader/critique partners (though it's better to have more at this stage); one set from a copy editor; and one set from a proofreader. <br /><br />JimJim Thomsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16436505068478971925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-12181998818381605852012-01-10T20:47:22.723-06:002012-01-10T20:47:22.723-06:00Seems like everyone's jumping on my price list...Seems like everyone's jumping on my price list, lol.<br /><br />Anyway, to clarify, that's for a single go-through, notes made, grammar/spelling issues, plot issues, etc.<br /><br />A second go-through would cost extra.<br /><br />I do agree with Joe--because I've been down this road--that if an editor basically needs to rewrite the book, change the plot, etc. then the writer goofed and needs to go back and revise before hiring an editor again.<br /><br />I define "rewrite" as a) every 1 or 2 lines need a revision (not just a grammar oopsy), b) story points are all over the place, c) the editor basically feels like he/she is writing the book instead of the author who gave it to them.<br /><br />Though everyone's experience in this business varies, having worked the publishing ropes for a good while now, I've seen too many writers who rely on the editor to basically "fix" the story instead of trying to do a great job themselves on it. Like I relayed to one author once: my job as editor isn't to build your car. My job is to give it a shine and make it ready for the showroom.A.P. Fuchshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07899725263886809754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-28810961676710164082012-01-10T20:34:24.514-06:002012-01-10T20:34:24.514-06:00Don't mean to be a dick, but if a book needs m...<i>Don't mean to be a dick, but if a book needs major editing, the writer screwed up. Anyone who knows about story arc, narrative structure, and characterization doesn't need an editor to fix major plot problems. There won't be any.</i><br /><br />I know you and Barry Eisler disagree on this point, and I'm with Barry on this one. A competent editor can guide a writer to dig deeper and turn a good story into a great one.<br /><br />Did F.Scott Fitzgerald need to go back to Craft 101. Hemingway? Steinbeck? Most people would say they are among the greatest writers of the 20th century, yet they were heavily edited. Hmm...Jude Hardinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09994813046526310594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-81781118254952523722012-01-10T19:55:08.632-06:002012-01-10T19:55:08.632-06:00An editor who does everything in one pass-through ...<i>An editor who does everything in one pass-through is going to miss a lot, guaranteed. </i><br /><br />Then you pay the editor to do a second pass-through.<br /><br />Or you learn how to write.<br /><br />Don't mean to be a dick, but if a book needs major editing, the writer screwed up. Anyone who knows about story arc, narrative structure, and characterization doesn't need an editor to fix major plot problems. There won't be any.<br /><br />We can all use a second set of eyes to catch mistakes. But if you're relying on that second set of eyes to rewrite the book for you, you need to go back to Craft 101.JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-40709166727146104852012-01-10T17:35:51.360-06:002012-01-10T17:35:51.360-06:00Jude's right.
An editor who does everything ...Jude's right. <br /><br />An editor who does everything in one pass-through is going to miss a lot, guaranteed. Just as every writer needs an editor, every editor needs a proofer. And sometimes, a second editor. In my newspaper days, most local news stories got at least two reads by two different editors, and often more in the page-proofing stage. <br /><br />I read through once, making notes and some edits (almost always in MS Word and in Track Changes), Then do my Hard Chicago the second time through. And if the Hard Chicago was really intensive, a third read-through often catches things I missed the second time. We're human. Our eyes blur and sometimes bleed. Sometimes you need a day or two or three between read-throughs, just as writers need breaks between revisions and rewrites. <br /><br />Then I write a document with notes separate from the dozens (or more) than I make in Track Changes, summarizing the major and recurring things I've done and making suggestions intended to help the writer through the revision or rewrite. <br /><br />It takes time. I would hope a client would never see that as soaking them for extra time, and so far, that's never been raised as an issue. One good-faith gesture I often make to that end is to strongly suggest that the author for whom I've done a line-edit hire a proofreader who is NOT me. Proofing should be done with fresh eyes.<br /><br />JimJim Thomsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16436505068478971925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-13868860672791917512012-01-10T17:35:03.568-06:002012-01-10T17:35:03.568-06:00I second what Dave G. says.
I was on a thread els...I second what Dave G. says.<br /><br />I was on a thread elsewhere and some fellow aspring indies were lamenting that they couldn't afford an editor. It can be a pricey proposition but I've networked with some whose rates are very reasonable. I defer that it's an element you can't afford NOT to have.<br /><br />I rationalized that Kindle Boards are full of "woe are my sales" individuals whose covers and blurbs were clearly skimped on.<br /><br />I'm selling crap on Craigslist to cover my editing/design costs against a tight budget at home but that's just me.<br /><br />Or you could go for the gusto like Dave G. and Crowdfund!<br /><br /> <a href="http://www.1writersjourney-dvshooter.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Writing Trip</a>David L. Shutterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08357694121376734716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-89786867315881522012012-01-10T16:56:15.954-06:002012-01-10T16:56:15.954-06:00Are we talking about a single read through?
I'...<i>Are we talking about a single read through?</i><br /><br />I'm talking about the kind of edit you would expect to get from a traditional publisher. A letter pointing out major and minor concerns, a line-by-line commentary written on a hard copy or through track changes, another letter pointing out more concerns after the first revision, and as many back-and-forths as it takes to get the manuscript in optimal condition.<br /><br />That's the kind of editing self-published authors need to look for, IMO. Of course the amount of work is going to vary from manuscript to manuscript, but I would guess most first novels (for example) would take quite a bit of time to get right. I know mine did.Jude Hardinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09994813046526310594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-20189205399615232662012-01-10T16:54:59.718-06:002012-01-10T16:54:59.718-06:00Wow. I'm starting to think that Susan is my mo...Wow. I'm starting to think that Susan is my more successful separated-at-birth twin. <br /><br />Most of my jobs bill in Susan's ballpark. I would say that the average copy-edit of the average-length novel (70,000 words to 110,000 words, in my experience) takes me between twenty and thirty hours. A developmental edit can run forty hours or more, depending on how much of a teardown is called for. <br /><br />My M.O. for the typical copy-edit is to read each MS twice — once to get a handle on the writer's voice and stylistic peccadilloes, and a second time for what I call a "Hard Chicago" line-edit.<br /><br />I would bill $175 only for a) a light copy-edit on a cleanly written novella; or b) a proofing job on a cleanly written novel. And, probably, the individual circumstances of the client would figure into it as well. <br /><br />I would add that the sliding scale is not just about the financial means of a client. I have sometimes offered discounts to friends, or to clients who have several works they want to publish and I want to strategically position myself for a long-term relationship that rewards both of us. <br /><br />There are lots of variables, including how I'm compensated. For instance, if I did a pretty intensive job for a client who doesn't have much money, I have allowed them to work out a payment plan. One client-friend paid me $75 a month for nearly a year to pay off a $700 bill. I didn't mind, and she was grateful enough that she hired me again to handle the rewrite of her novel. And paid me much the same way. <br /><br />Every circumstance is different, just as very job is different. And I'm all about celebrating the differences. There is such a thing as being so professional than you drain everything personal out of the relationship. That's not what I'm about. <br /><br />Jim<br /><br />Also, like Susan, I've never had a website. Why? Let me answer with a question: What would I put on it? Editing samples? All that would do is embarrass my clients. Rates? As I've said, those vary by individual circumstance. A blog? Not sure what I'd blog about. LIke Susan, I get my clients by word-of-mouth and by making connections (social media, writer's conferences, ingratiating myself into the author community in Seattle, where I live, etc.).Jim Thomsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16436505068478971925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-78251337557793245412012-01-10T16:53:52.976-06:002012-01-10T16:53:52.976-06:00Jon,
Thanks for your comments. You're so rig...Jon,<br /><br />Thanks for your comments. You're so right. Especially about the relationships between editors and authors. <br /><br />Likewise, samples of work can surely go both ways, and that is often a good test to see how you'll work together and if your styles mesh.Susan Tunishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17393038397678961337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-58190332948243361662012-01-10T16:36:41.555-06:002012-01-10T16:36:41.555-06:00Hi Jude,
That's some excellent self-editing, ...Hi Jude,<br /><br />That's some excellent self-editing, LOL. (Isn't it awful? I'm typing on an iPad, and I feel like I'll lose all credibility if I make a typo!)<br /><br />So, you're asking the question that I don't want to get hemmed in by. Each and every project is different. Some are a breeze, and others are real challenges. That's why it's difficult to say that a 60K novel costs such and such. That's one of the reasons I look at sample chapters.<br /><br />That said, and in order to try and answer you in good faith, I'd estimate that job costing between $500 - $1000 dollars. Most likely somewhere in the middle. It really depends. Are we talking about a single read through? It could be less. That's not a long novel.<br /><br />But you're quite right. I can't do it for $175. Though I might be able to do a simple proofreading job in that ballpark. <br /><br />You also asked for a website. Jude, I've never had one. I pick up clients generally through referrals and word of mouth, so it's never been a priority.Susan Tunishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17393038397678961337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-5887097148049210762012-01-10T16:25:44.849-06:002012-01-10T16:25:44.849-06:00Hey, Ninja ... (and great interview Susan) ... I&#...Hey, Ninja ... (and great interview Susan) ... I'm also a freelance editor and partner in an editing service, so I can talk a bit to rates. As Susan pointed out, different editors work differently, and not every editor is the right match for every project. The relationship between an editor and an author can be pretty personal, especially for newer authors who aren't used to criticism (I believe it's a skill to accept criticism, just as it's a skill to give constructive criticism). <br /><br />Anyway, about rates, from my experience, Susan's hourly rates are totally reasonable. I've seen editors charge $75/hour. Personally, we charge by the word, with rates that are comparable to the POD companies, but we offer an initial edit, comprehensive editorial letter, and follow-on edit after the author has made revisions based on the editorial letter. The standard rate is $0.017 per word. Because our process involves two full edits and a revision, it can take somewhat longer and depends a lot on the author's revision time. <br /><br />Lastly, I strongly recommend that ALL authors looking for editors get an editing sample. First, you want to see your editor's technical skill and the kinds of things he or she will change. Samples should be short (10 pages or so), but it's an important tool. Second, the editor/author relationship really does matter—and a sample will give you a chance to see how your prospective editor works. Are they responsive? Do they leave helpful comments? Do they demonstrate good editorial judgment? Mostly, do you feel you can trust this person? <br /><br />Anyway, that's my two cents. I personally am a huge believer in editors. I myself am a better writer for having worked with good editors, and I think any decent editor should be your toughest advocate, if that makes any sense.<br /><br />Jon VanZile<br />www.editingforauthors.comJon VanZilehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14026643422328853037noreply@blogger.com