tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post4724646809201645001..comments2024-03-28T02:00:11.260-05:00Comments on A Newbie's Guide to Publishing: Exploited Writers in an Unfair IndustryJA Konrathhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comBlogger179125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1833646744470311652013-06-04T19:30:46.554-05:002013-06-04T19:30:46.554-05:00What is the price difference between getting publi...What is the price difference between getting published by an actual publisher versus self-publishing?Raven J Maaka-Lourierohttp://gothipire.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-72438620053626046312012-08-23T02:41:27.700-05:002012-08-23T02:41:27.700-05:00Thanks for the great post. I agree with you, at le...Thanks for the great post. I agree with you, at least 95% of the way. Certainly, publishing is a dying pig. But I am not too sure about the revolution of the horses that you are hinting at. <br /><br />I mean, let's face it: there are still 10 writers for every reader in the world. Even if the gatekeepers are gone, you still need some kind of middlemen to reach the readers. Of course, you could market yourself, and I know many people are doing this successfully. But most authors are not marketeers, they just want to write. And the publisher might still be able to add some value in the process. So I guess some kind of recomposition of the middlemen will take place, maybe through content & media distribution websites, who knows?<br /><br />I have a question, though. Is it still 25% the industry standard for ebook royalties? Let's say I am a publisher (which I am not) and want to publish somebody else's ebook and distribute it through Amazon, etc. Would a 75%-25% split of the net profit be fair? It doesn't look to me. I would think a 50%-50% is more fair. But standards, like jurisprudence, tend to have some weight in negotiations. Could you point me to resources that give precise information on current standards and practices? Thanks a lot for the information!Ignasihttp://www.ignasiribo.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-39549023057046928412012-05-24T20:50:17.976-05:002012-05-24T20:50:17.976-05:00I don't know, Joe, when the writers went on St...I don't know, Joe, when the writers went on Strike against the TV networks to get a better deal for digital, they all got canned. And replaced by kids. So maybe some caution was in order.Malcolmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-51387308652016403462012-05-22T10:38:45.489-05:002012-05-22T10:38:45.489-05:00Joe, as for it being a rather black and white issu...Joe, as for it being a rather black and white issue, I have to agree for the most part. Authors will make more money per book through self-publishing. It isn't so black and white that authors will sell enough to make money self-publishing. It's something of a crapshoot no matter which way you go. There's risk on all sides.<br /><br />So, for me, to say it's stupid to go traditional, is a bit misleading. There are no guarantees. One still has to be willing and able to invest in your work in order to have a good shot at making it work. Some writers aren't at that point. I'm not. I can't afford the services needed to put out the best possible product. At some point I hope to be, because I do want to dig into this whole self-publishing thing. At this point it's still too much of a risk.<br /><br />So to say it's black and white, one has to take that with a little grain of salt. It's not an easy thing to do if you want to do it right. Traditional has issues to be sure. We aren't paid fairly, but if you want to take the risks involved in self-publishing, I do believe it's worth pursuing because it can help leverage the ability to invest in your own work and have a reasonable chance of success on your own.JDuncanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00487305836910594252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-56722970225823874452012-05-21T22:22:19.855-05:002012-05-21T22:22:19.855-05:00BTW, someone emailed me and asked why I never resp...BTW, someone emailed me and asked why I never responded to this alleged fisk:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244666" rel="nofollow">http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244666</a><br /><br />Actually, I did respond to that pinhead, a while ago. <br /><br /><a href="http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6556720&postcount=519" rel="nofollow">http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6556720&postcount=519</a><br /><br />Then I got banned. So I never went back to Absolutewrite. It's a shame that a few idiots prevent others from getting good information, but anyone who wants to hear what I have to say can come here.JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-33825506901829058062012-05-21T14:50:52.955-05:002012-05-21T14:50:52.955-05:00Thank you, Joe, for writing about this topic. Won...Thank you, Joe, for writing about this topic. Wonderful to hear that there is a way out for you authors.Jaynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-8667437548037702132012-05-21T10:32:08.919-05:002012-05-21T10:32:08.919-05:00When a disruptive technology comes along, the real...<i>When a disruptive technology comes along, the reality is that the old ways heavily invested in capital pretty much have to die off (there are rare exceptions)</i><br /><br />I know. I read Christensen. But Seagate bought Sundisk. It can be bottom up if profit us used to buy competitive start-ups. <br /><br />Random House should buy Smashwords. Then upload their entire catalog into it. Then they should partner with the floundering Sony and update their ereader.<br /><br /><i>Or perhaps there is some old school strangulation of competition going on as well.</i><br /><br />It's a fine line between strangulation and innovating while outperforming.JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-3453382667667448952012-05-21T10:27:40.489-05:002012-05-21T10:27:40.489-05:00I was posting here in response to your comment tha...<i>I was posting here in response to your comment that authors were stupid to sign trad deals and wanted to say that its not all black and white.</i><br /><br />Actually, the point I believe you're making is it isn't black and white in the short term.<br /><br />In the long term, it is black and white. "You'll make more money self-publishing" is about as absolute a statement that can be made. Even in cases of uber bestsellers. But if you get a five mil advance, it might take sixty years at current sales rates to make as much on your own. But eventually you will make that much. Ebooks are forever.<br /><br />If you can make "walk away money" from a pub, take it. I've said this many times. Take the huge advance, realize you'll never get the rights back, then move on.<br /><br />But that's only applicable to very few bestsellers.<br /><br />When I first began to realize a writer could make more on their own, I was only making a few grand a month via self-pubbing. I saw the numbers then.<br /><br />Since then, the numbers have steadily risen. Comparing books to other media technologies, I'm confident this trend will continue. Only the future will tell if I'm right, but reading my blog going back to 2005, I've been right about an awful lot.<br /><br />If you're entirely aware of what you're doing, and potentially giving up, when you sign a legacy deal, that is your choice. But I'd bet big money that within five years you'll be kicking yourself for not holding onto your rights. <br /><br />When the choice is between a book earning forever, and a book earning a nice advance, forever is the smarter move, even if forever has a slow start.JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-20844903463384333132012-05-21T10:22:13.652-05:002012-05-21T10:22:13.652-05:00"I believe you're missing the essence of ...<i>"I believe you're missing the essence of my argument. I'm saying that Union Pacific lost shipping and travel business to motor vehicles. What UP should have done was invest in cars, or start building their own. They forgot what business they were in, and lost business."</i><br /><br />If this was your point, I still don't think it applies well. Given the investment in railroads, it would have been far harder for UP to become truck-based than for something totally new, which could build a new kind of business from the ground up, to essentially come along. When a disruptive technology comes along, the reality is that the old ways heavily invested in capital pretty much have to die off (there are rare exceptions). And there is a lot of pain there. Livelihoods. Cultures. Entire towns or regions.<br /><br />The reason I don't think this applies in this cases is that the publishers are NOT welded to a technology. They don't have the presses; they outsource. They are managers of content, essentially. So, they SHOULD be able to switch over to digital and modify their business model. <br /><br />The fact that they aren't is therefore an even bigger tragedy, IMO. There are many good people in traditional publishing, who love books, work their asses off to find and produce good books, from agents to editors. There are of course sharks, too, as there are everywhere. But when the ship goes down, which it will, the waters won't care whether you were good or evil. <br /><br />Which brings me to <br /><br /><i>"DRM isn't Amazon's baby. The publishers insist on it. My Amazon ebooks don't have DRM."</i><br /><br />The publishers are shooting themselves in the foot with this, because they are handing Amazon the ammo to fill their Kindles with, and Amazon will be very happy to pull that trigger.<br /><br /><i>"But in Amazon's case, they are a middleman with a great online store and a great ereading device."</i><br /><br />Sure, and perhaps they are where they are for a combination of sweat, timing, and quality. Or perhaps there is some old school strangulation of competition going on as well. I am less sanguine about market dominance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-14574229803905353932012-05-21T06:01:10.639-05:002012-05-21T06:01:10.639-05:00With the sales numbers, and the situation you'...With the sales numbers, and the situation you're quoting you're right. <br /><br />But there are other books with different numbers where the math is different than your situation.<br /><br />That's all I'm saying. <br /><br />There are many authors - me included whose sell through is double or triple 20 -30%. Many have 100% sell throughs and go back to press. And not all are bestsellers. <br /><br />And there are many authors, me included, who are not seeing the kind of ebook sales on our self pubbed books that you are. <br /><br />You mentioned summer slowing - I actually did better in the summer - so its not about season for me. Its more about Amazon giving the book a marketing push or not. <br /><br />Listen, I'm not saying the trad system isn't flawed - it is. But every system is flawed. And I'm not saying every author is better off with trad deals. They aren't. <br /><br />I was posting here in response to your comment that authors were stupid to sign trad deals and wanted to say that its not all black and white.MJRosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01691203521957093189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-19490143037059048962012-05-20T23:48:07.907-05:002012-05-20T23:48:07.907-05:00But there are also authors whose books do earn out...<i>But there are also authors whose books do earn out, who don't sell their foreign rights and advances that are more enough to live on.</i><br /><br />Let's assume ebooks will become the dominant media for reading. According to my royalty statements, my legacy ebooks sell many times the amount of my print.<br /><br />With a $100k advance, an ebook priced at $6.99 (which is too high, by the way) will earn the author $1.22 per copy.<br /><br />That ebook will have to sell over 80,000 copies to earn out the advance--unlikely at $6.99, even over many years.<br /><br />But I can (and have) made over $100k each on five of my self-pubbed ebooks, selling at $2.99, in less that three years. I only had to sell 50k copies of each to do so.<br /><br />So you get a $100k advance, and it takes, if you're lucky, ten to fifteen years to earn out before you start making royalties.<br /><br />In that time I'll have made between $300k and $600k for my single title.<br /><br />Publishers haven't shown they can sell ebooks. Last I hear, paper sell through was only 20-30%, and paper sales are dwindling.<br /><br />Giving your e-rights to a publisher, even with a six figure advance, is a really bad idea.JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-74398324455861471542012-05-20T22:21:50.129-05:002012-05-20T22:21:50.129-05:00Joe, you are right if we're talking about book...Joe, you are right if we're talking about books that never earn out... and authors who sell their foreign rights to publishers.. and advances that are hard to live on.<br /><br />But there are also authors whose books do earn out, who don't sell their foreign rights and advances that are more enough to live on.<br /><br />I simply, respectfully wanted to make the point that one size doesn't fit all.MJRosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01691203521957093189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-81318065837786478702012-05-20T20:57:52.049-05:002012-05-20T20:57:52.049-05:00What if my self pubbed sales go down?
In the sum...<i>What if my self pubbed sales go down? </i><br /><br />In the summer, ebook sales are down. It's been like that the last four years. They go back up in the fall.<br /><br />Slowly but surely we're entering a global marketplace. The more ebooks you have available, the more money you'll be able to make. Having your rights tied up by a publisher (who does a poor job of exploiting those rights via high prices, low royalties, long publication lead times, and not entering foreign markets even when they have worldwide) is basically robbing money from your future self. <br /><br />We know that even a $100k advance is split up into three or four payments. We also know, unless the publisher makes it a lead title, it is unlikely to earn out, ever. Which means you made $85k (after agent commission) and you'll never see another cent. <br /><br />That's just not smart business, MJ. I've lived advance to advance before. Never again.JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-48591354832426933472012-05-20T17:24:56.268-05:002012-05-20T17:24:56.268-05:00Joe, I hope I live longer than 5 years:)
Respectf...Joe, I hope I live longer than 5 years:)<br /><br />Respectfully, you know I am not arguing against self pubbing. Or for tradtional publishing. <br /><br /> I was just pointing out its really not one size fits all. <br /><br />But as to your question.<br /><br /> I can't assume that after 5 years I'll make more on that book.<br /><br />What if my self pubbed sales go down? <br /><br />100K (since you picked that figure) today or maybe more than that after 5 years? Or maybe less than that after 5 years?<br /><br />Bird in the hand... right?<br /><br /> There are other reasons for someone to want 100K from a trad publisher today instead of assuming that they will be able to make more than that on their own one day. <br /><br />The advance system can allow an author to make a living while writing. And some authors would be assured an X sized income. <br /><br />Especially because back list books often do continue to earn royalties. Some of my back list titles earn more royalties per year than I earn with on self pubbed titles.MJRosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01691203521957093189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-55691882477109770622012-05-20T13:54:19.723-05:002012-05-20T13:54:19.723-05:00Believe it or not, many authors with a big contrac...Believe it or not, many authors with a big contract and authors who strive and still struggle for a big contract, continue to hold self-publishing with disdain and something that only 'losers" or less worthy would contemplate.<br /><br />I hear it all the time. Sigh.<br /><br />Patty G. Henderson<br />www.pattyghenderson.comPatty G. Hendersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17243681105512640095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-5840508951679422372012-05-20T13:32:48.384-05:002012-05-20T13:32:48.384-05:00Joe, I totally agree that in a few years, or maybe...Joe, I totally agree that in a few years, or maybe sooner, children's educational material can go self-pubbed, particularly for authors with credentials.<br /><br />I started self pubbing to learn the ropes so when the revolution hits other areas, such as childrens educational, I will be ready.T.A.K.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-30007733597558375532012-05-20T13:15:31.026-05:002012-05-20T13:15:31.026-05:00but what about children's hardcover books aime...<i>but what about children's hardcover books aimed at schools and libraries?</i><br /><br />Give it a few years.<br /><br />"Class, take out your ereaders and flip to page 17 of The Fuzzy Caterpillar Eats Its Young. Midge, start reading aloud at the top of the page."<br /><br />And:<br /><br />"Mom! Can we go to the library! All the ebooks on my Kindle have expired, and I need to check out more!"<br /><br />I just read somewhere that children prefer ereaders. Eventually there will be a child-proof ereader.<br /><br />Do you read my comments, Amazon? Talk to Fisher-Price. Partner up. Create a kid-friendly Kindle made of bright, indestructible plastic with round corners and a child-proof code for parents.JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-3266158291019297942012-05-20T13:09:20.032-05:002012-05-20T13:09:20.032-05:00Even if I double my self sales it will still take ...<i>Even if I double my self sales it will still take me more than 5 years to get to my advance - if that is- I can double my self sales. </i><br /><br />If you expect to live longer than 5 years, why wouldn't you go for what will ultimately earn you more money? I'd rather have a million dollars in 2020 than $100k today.<br /><br />You've been lucky to get your rights back. I'm doubtful I'll get mine back, unless something drastic happens. If I had those rights, I'd be tripling my income. And I'm one of the lucky few who has earned out his advances.<br /><br />If you can get huge money from a publisher, go for it. But do the math. <br /><br />Back in 2011, I wrote this in a blog post:<br /><br /><i>I just got my royalty statement for AFRAID (pubbed by Hachetter). It has made $60k since 2009.<br /><br />The two books Hachette rejected, TRAPPED and ENDURANCE, have made $160k since 2010.</i><br /><br />I won't get the rights to AFRAID back. And it will keep earning a pittance compared to my other books. Extrapolate this profit chasm for thirty more years, and I'll have literally missed out on millions of dollars in income.<br /><br /><i>can't we can the name calling?</i><br /><br />Two things. First, I only call people stupid when they act stupid. If they don't want to be called an idiot, they need to stop acting like an idiot.<br /><br />Second, you have an advertising background, MJ. You understand marketing and publicity.<br /><br />Let's assume I do as well.<br /><br />So why would I call people names on my blog?JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-9087576989561156872012-05-20T13:08:54.318-05:002012-05-20T13:08:54.318-05:00Hi, Joe,
Advantages to traditional publishing? M...Hi, Joe,<br /><br />Advantages to traditional publishing? Maybe not for genre fiction, but what about children's hardcover books aimed at schools and libraries? I have one under contract. The day will come when amazon KDP will replace those, but that day isn't here yet. Children's librarians still select their books based on reviews in school library journal.<br /><br />Children's books have always been divided into books children choose for themselves (think the fun stuff with goosebumps or diapers in the titles) and the books selected for them by teachers, librarians, and grandparents. Self-publishing works for the fun stuff, but less so for the educational stuff.<br /><br />Traditional publishing will probably remain for niche books. Ebooks can't replace coffee table art books, for example.T.A.K.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-16508837608892677662012-05-20T12:26:32.265-05:002012-05-20T12:26:32.265-05:00Like Barry says - its all a lottery - self or tra...Like Barry says - its all a lottery - self or trad. And I do both and I do WAY better with the trad lottery. <br /><br />Also I am not that afraid of getting rights back. My agency has been able to get all the rights back I've wanted.<br /><br />Even if I double my self sales it will still take me more than 5 years to get to my advance - if that is- I can double my self sales. <br /><br />My self sales started off good but have seriously slowed in the last six months no matter what I try.<br /><br /> When Amazon gives me a push they rebound but they haven't given me one lately.<br /><br />Its your playground and you can call me stupid if you want but- we're all creative people with different goals, needs and reason for making the choices we make - can't we can the name calling?<br /><br />Do we need to start drawing lines between each other?MJRosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01691203521957093189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-89528754022341044152012-05-20T10:46:26.809-05:002012-05-20T10:46:26.809-05:00There are very real and useful advantages to write...<i>There are very real and useful advantages to writers in the existing traditional system</i><br /><br />Name them.<br /><br />You're taking me to task for tone, but avoided responding to any of my points. Then you make zero points to back up your position.<br /><br />I've said, multiple times, that all writers have to set goals for themselves based on what they want. That could indeed lead a writer to seek a legacy publisher.<br /><br />But lots of people have lots of stupid goals that aren't in their best interests. Giving up 70% for 17.5% is pretty stupid. <br /><br />So please give me your list of legacy advantages. Then I'll help you understand why they aren't advantages at all.JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-68343792071925781782012-05-20T06:43:46.155-05:002012-05-20T06:43:46.155-05:00I disagree with you to a certain extent on the rai...I disagree with you to a certain extent on the railroads. The guys who laid the rail (the gandy dancers) were predominantly white, with some Chinese indentured servants thrown in. And trucks are not cheaper, but are far more convenient in an age of "just in time delivery."(DW) Bergendorfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01163398890686611058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-87568609969340241142012-05-20T01:40:35.787-05:002012-05-20T01:40:35.787-05:00Great post as always, but it highlights something ...Great post as always, but it highlights something I've not understood about your backing for the wholesale model for some time. You rightly say that Amazon etc are empowering writers, yet you back a system where indie writers give away one of their most powerful tools: the ability to set the price of their works. Instead you are willing - nay, clamouring - to hand that power to Amazon instead.<br /><br />The current system may not be the best for the reader (I say may, because I don't know the actual figures), but in my estimation the agency model is best for the indie author. Indie authors -be they big like you, or small like me, can always undercut the publishers, giving us a powerful marketing tool to sell our work. If we give that power to Amazon they could easily increase the price of your book to match that of Random House's latest work, and where you could compete on price, you now can't. Instead you have to compete on marketing, and Random house will win that one, as they have the money to do it right. In the same way Amazon selling Random House's offering at a loss will still benefit Random House under the wholesale model, and they will still profit.<br /><br />I know you've often said in the past that selling ebooks isn't a zero sum game, and that there is no longer an either/or choice open to the buyer, but I strongly believe that indie authors need price to compete on, at least at first, until they gain readers and become more established. While wholesale is clearly the best for the publisher (and whichever writers are still with publishers), the indie model works best for the indie author like me, as it allows me to undercut all the published writers while I build my readership, and it is best for you, as it gives you complete control over your work, from writing to editing to cover art to price. For years you have talked about how you like having control over your books - why would you willingly hand the last element of control over to Amazon?<br /><br />Anyway, my thoughts, badly strung together as usual. My books are better, honest...Ellis Jacksonhttp://ellisjackson.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-26275458878478561162012-05-20T01:20:44.473-05:002012-05-20T01:20:44.473-05:00A great deal of this exploitation/control has been...A great deal of this exploitation/control has been built on the idea that only what is traditionally published has any merit. Given that 99.9% of writers were never going to get trad publishing contracts, for the reasons Joe describes, the idea that only what is published can be any good is ridiculous. Writers have been brainwashed into believing and accepting this. Even as e-publishing arrived writers were/are still saying they needed the 'validation' of a trad publishing acceptance.<br /><br />Another area where writers accept abuse for the whole of their industry is the treatment by agents and publishers; what other business takes six months to a year to respond to queries and quite often does not bother to respond at all. Alongside this they demand no multiple submissions, so you'd be dead before you got the MS to all the publishers. Why do agents feel it is appropriate to criticize and ridicule writers for failing in any aspect of the submission process, while behaving less than professionally themselves?<br /><br />For too long writers have been labelled, needy second class nutcases. It was a sickening process to observe and whatever happens with the new industry it's good to see the back of the old one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-58782462337338393952012-05-20T00:44:14.634-05:002012-05-20T00:44:14.634-05:00Experience counts for a lot as data can be gathere...Experience counts for a lot as data can be gathered through experience.<br /><br />What counts even more than experience are facts and logic.<br /><br />Righteousness and certainty are always useful.<br /><br />Being wrong and uncertain leads to chaos and criminals running unchecked.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com