tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post5955976893109155568..comments2024-03-28T02:00:11.260-05:00Comments on A Newbie's Guide to Publishing: MWA(BNSP) - Mystery Writers of America (But Not for the Self-Published)JA Konrathhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comBlogger279125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-66027765470894004242014-10-03T20:38:14.591-05:002014-10-03T20:38:14.591-05:00The International Thrillers Writers is no differen...The International Thrillers Writers is no different to the MWA.<br />Pro published legacy authors get to join for free, everyone else pays $95.<br />It's the 'everyone else' who finances the pro ITW authors.<br />Self-published ebook authors are still excluded, doesn't matter how many ebooks they've sold.<br />Unless said author pays the $95 bucks of course.<br />Nice deal they've got going there.<br />Why should I, as a self-published ebook author join the ITW, how does it benefit my writing career?<br />It doesn't, it only benefits the ITW authors.<br />Same old, same old.<br />Regards: JaqAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-19682530308197739982014-07-20T11:08:50.530-05:002014-07-20T11:08:50.530-05:00Validated is a good word, Joe - and it's how I...Validated is a good word, Joe - and it's how I felt being accepted as a member of International Thriller Writers. I've never self-published, mainly because much of the technical stuff (formatting, etc) is beyond me and would take up time better spent writing. My first two suspense novels were published by Zebra,NY, and when they rejected the third one, I opted to go with a small Canadian publisher, which I'm hoping will be recognized by ITW. I too, have stopped renewing my membership with MWA, since I felt I was getting little for my money. I'm reasonably content in my niche. :)Joan Hall Hoveyhttp://www.joanhallhovey.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-26931067607615347482013-12-28T18:49:22.986-06:002013-12-28T18:49:22.986-06:00I recall having similar complaints against The Hor...I recall having similar complaints against The Horror Writer's Association. They too have guidelines that say you aren't good enough to join them if you are self published. :(EelKathttp://www.eelkat.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-70936412441919789012013-05-15T14:02:13.970-05:002013-05-15T14:02:13.970-05:00I said much the same thing about the SFWA years ag...I said much the same thing about the SFWA years ago, <br />http://authorguy.wordpress.com/2010/10/30/sfwa/<br />only my concern was there membership standards denying people who were published but not by one of their small list of recognized venues. To my way of thinking, if you write SF you're an SF writer and should be just as eligible.Author Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18316825723835547403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-48946577752316687432011-07-09T18:41:20.613-05:002011-07-09T18:41:20.613-05:00This post from Joe bought up a memory of mine...I ...This post from Joe bought up a memory of mine...I was a big fan of Science Fiction Age back in the 90's before it went under due to poor readership. It was a great monthly that carried a variety of stories plus news on Sci-Fi movies, tv games etc. Towards the end however I noticed a trend towards these LONG shorts and even Novellas that filled most of the magazine, squeezed out more of the short fiction (which was usually the best and most entertaining) and seemed to come exclusively from published, big name SF authors. <br /><br />For those of you that don't know, within the spectrum of Science Fiction there is a subtle division: SF, as a sub-genre, is usually reserved for describing "hard" science fiction or stories based on more realistic futuristic theory than fantasy elements, which is more referred to as Sci-Fi. Rockets and ray-guns as Asimov use to say. The authors of these types of stories were often credited as NASA types, Physics professors at big name Universities, SETI researchers etc. Some of their stories were great. Many others (in my opinion) were endless diatribes on futuristic theories (yawn) with little to no real (or interesting) story. BUT...they came from name authors so, I guess they had to publish them.<br /><br />Cleaning out a storage shed recently I found stacks of my old magazines, went through them and realized that almost the entire last year of them, 12 issues, I subscribed too...I had never even read. I recall thumbing through them, seeing the ENTIRE mag was from one of those "real" SF authors and stacked it away. I have nothign against any writer in this genre or anyone who chooses to read it, hey, you're porbably smarter than me, but when SF Age apparently drew an exlusive line in the sand limiting themselves to "real" authors their mag became boring as hell to the majority of us and they sealed their fate.<br /><br />Sounds like this MWA group is well on track to follow suit.David L. Shutterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08357694121376734716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-33518949060547839722011-07-08T08:00:39.453-05:002011-07-08T08:00:39.453-05:00Well, it looks like two more writers managed to sh...Well, it looks like two more writers managed to shake themselves free of the "tsunami of crap".<br /><br />Mark Edwards & Louise Voss have just been signed by HarperCollins (UK) on a six-figure four book deal. That's British pounds too.<br /><br />I know Mark a little through Kindle Boards. He has been trying to crack the publishing game for a long time. He had a couple of agents, but could never get a deal.<br /><br />They self-published for the first time in February 2011. In June they sold over 40,000 books in the UK alone.<br /><br />In July they get approached by a big publisher. <br /><br />Wonder how all those readers found them in that mountain of crap, eh?David Gaughranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13236692339928690142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-49470374223412995902011-06-18T04:46:22.363-05:002011-06-18T04:46:22.363-05:00Jude said:
"I haven't made a dime yet, b...<i>Jude said:<br /><br />"I haven't made a dime yet, but I have a hardcover published by a legit small press and a top literary agent anxious to sell my next book. So I shouldn't be allowed to join one of the pro organizations if I want to? That doesn't sound quite right either."</i><br /><br />Jude, I have to ask: How do <i>you</i> define a professional?<br /><br />Are you really a "professional" writer just because you've had a book published?<br /><br />Or are you a professional writer when you earn your living as a writer?<br /><br /><i>Jude also said:<br /><br />"Selling lots of books is largely a matter of luck. Luck shouldn't be the definable standard for anything."</i><br /><br />By your own definition of luck, then, getting published by a "legit" publisher is largely a matter of luck as well.<br /><br />It's funny how people tend to get "luckier" the more they practice something, right? (The harder Konrath work, the "luckier" he gets.)<br /><br />I've said before that I don't believe in luck. It's all about probability. Do the right things to increase the odds, and you will be successful. "Luck" is just probability taken personal.Stitchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03206873570587284561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-64014963903519918852011-06-17T17:00:20.503-05:002011-06-17T17:00:20.503-05:00But then again, so is trashing an industry that wo...<i>But then again, so is trashing an industry that wouldn't have you.</i><br /><br />Trashing an industry is. <br /><br />Warning authors is not. <br /><br />I assume this wasn't aimed at me, since I have both legacy contracts and am eligible for MWA active status, so it isn't a question of being wanted.<br /><br />But you'd have to be pretty dense to want to be a part of any group hell bent on extinction.JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-17880648421279757402011-06-17T09:50:23.137-05:002011-06-17T09:50:23.137-05:00Just got a note from Oceanview that Thrillers: 100...Just got a note from Oceanview that <i>Thrillers: 100 Must Reads</i> has been nominated for an Anthony award. Congrats to Joe and all the other authors involved in the project.Jude Hardinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09994813046526310594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-82460943545472524412011-06-17T09:43:54.301-05:002011-06-17T09:43:54.301-05:00The need for validation is often rooted in insecur...<i>The need for validation is often rooted in insecurity.<br /></i><br /><br />This is so true. But then again, so is trashing an industry that wouldn't have you.Kylenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-85877482580868606222011-06-17T09:43:07.244-05:002011-06-17T09:43:07.244-05:00I have no doubt that since agents are now actively...I have no doubt that since agents are now actively trawling for self-published authors with a considerable presence and numbers of sales and boutique publishers and self-published authors are creating co-op publishing companies, that it won't be long before traditional publishers either try to gobble up more Amanda Hockings, who crave the validation and services, or find some other way to get their feet in the doors of up and coming authors. I read in Alan Rinzler's blog that publishers are admitting they don't know what sells (no surprise there) and that 80-90% of all traditionally published books fail (i.e., never earn out the advance). Sad numbers for a group of people who proclaim themselves the gatekeepers. Professional organizations will either follow the ITW's business model and publish their own anthologies to make money or fold, although they might try to soldier on with their remaining members. It's a volatile and chaotic time. Should be interesting to watch.Jacklyn Cornwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07703031152094274587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-9667081495824427672011-06-17T09:38:17.978-05:002011-06-17T09:38:17.978-05:00Other than Lee, not a single MWA member posted to ...Other than Lee, not a single MWA member posted to show support for their organization. Even anonymously.<br /><br />But I dug this anon comment:<br /><br /><i>it's how many members have you lost in say the last five years and how many writers have decided not to join due to their concerns regarding the MWA and how it will benefit them. I suspect it's enough.</i><br /><br />It's a simple case of numbers. Fewer newbies are being legacy published, which means fewer new MWA members. Plus, the older members are getting older and won't be around forever.JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-63317801318722207482011-06-17T09:28:02.275-05:002011-06-17T09:28:02.275-05:00I don't see what all the fuss is about.
If yo...<i>I don't see what all the fuss is about.<br /><br />If you snub commercial publishing, you snub it all. You snub the awards, you snub the professional organization, you snub it all.<br /><br />Having a hissy fit because they're changed their rules to let some small publishers in doesn't make sense. It's like being upset because the private club down the street is allowing in people from the next street who you don't want to be friends with anyway. <br /><br />Why is this even worthy of a blog post, other than to rant yet again about how 'orrible publishing is and we've been hearing that for years.<br /><br />You dance with whom brought ya.<br /><br />Go self-pub, can't complain when you don't get to play in every pond 'cause you wanna.</i><br /><br /><br />Spot on, anon.Tonynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-6495025936994376842011-06-17T01:33:38.363-05:002011-06-17T01:33:38.363-05:00>I think every aspiring
>horror writer know...>I think every aspiring <br />>horror writer knows what <br />>the Stokers are and would <br />>love to have one given to <br />>them, <br /><br />I was referring more to readers (horror or not).<br /><br />>but the awards, most awards <br />>in fact, tend to be more <br />>about popularity and <br />>profits than about the <br />>best writing. <br /><br />Absolutely. That's why I rarely consult award lists when making purchases for my library. Most readers don't pay a lot of attention to them, and (subsequently) they don't do much to insure circulation of the books in the library.Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1163441799098111802011-06-16T21:51:00.386-05:002011-06-16T21:51:00.386-05:00Agree... which is why I dropped my membership to t...Agree... which is why I dropped my membership to two writers orgs. All I did was pay dues w/o a return on investment. Not true with Novelists, Inc. (NINC) or my local writers group. Both are well worth the investment of my time and $.Cyndyhttp://www.cyndysalzmann.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-84825009461407466692011-06-16T17:29:08.616-05:002011-06-16T17:29:08.616-05:00It's a mystery.It's a mystery.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-63983662547101609332011-06-16T17:23:41.274-05:002011-06-16T17:23:41.274-05:00"I don't want to belong to any club that ..."I don't want to belong to any club that would accept me as a member." - Groucho MarxShawnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03279517495579034815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-37099177349803747112011-06-16T15:12:29.769-05:002011-06-16T15:12:29.769-05:00Anon, I believe Ms. Rose said that they do admit s...Anon, I believe Ms. Rose said that they do admit self-published authors on a case by case basis. After all, as Ms. Rose said, she began as a self-published author when it wasn't cool.Jacklyn Cornwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07703031152094274587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-80950719784570922932011-06-16T15:11:32.831-05:002011-06-16T15:11:32.831-05:00James, I think every aspiring horror writer knows ...James, I think every aspiring horror writer knows what the Stokers are and would love to have one given to them, but the awards, most awards in fact, tend to be more about popularity and profits than about the best writing. Judging writing is subjective, once you get past the grammar, spelling, and punctuation. Not everyone likes the same things, nor should they, but awards make it seem like they do -- or they should because the writing has some perceived social significance. <br /><br />However, I wouldn't mind getting a Pulitzer for one of my novels, especially since this time around the novel is self-published. See? I'm just as shallow as everyone else wanting a little validation for my work.Jacklyn Cornwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07703031152094274587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-43037672713644483242011-06-16T15:09:23.070-05:002011-06-16T15:09:23.070-05:00MJ Rose said: "In fact, we (ITW) were actuall...MJ Rose said: "In fact, we (ITW) were actually self publishing before either Joe or Lee."<br /><br />So it's OK for ITW to self publish, but not their members??? Some folks would say that's hypocritical.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-26700513627770444912011-06-16T14:55:13.086-05:002011-06-16T14:55:13.086-05:00>How would I start an org?
>First, DON'...>How would I start an org? <br />>First, DON'T GIVE YOURSELF <br />>AWARDS<br /><br />Hallelujah to that. When I was in the HWA, it always used to bug me that they seemed to spend half (or more) of their energy on the damned Stokers. It was like one big circle jerk. Most people have never even heard of it.Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-76248479956729272102011-06-16T10:57:44.032-05:002011-06-16T10:57:44.032-05:00Totally agree. They are the type of clueless, old ...Totally agree. They are the type of clueless, old organization that has no future. By refusing to adapt to the times, they become irrelevant.<br /><br />I wrote a mystery set in DC, Murder in Ocean Hall. I looked to join MWA because I wanted to learn more about the field. The name of the organization isn't Traditionally Published Murder Writers of America. <br /><br />But me and my money weren't welcome. What kind of membership organization doesn't want more members?Joe Floodhttp://joeflood.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-73919109715775961232011-06-15T23:05:10.705-05:002011-06-15T23:05:10.705-05:00I'm not a joiner, but I joined several of the ...I'm not a joiner, but I joined several of the writers organizations because that's what all my friends were doing and I felt a bit of peer pressure. People saying, "when are you gonna join? When are you gonna join?"<br /><br />So I joined. And what I found, for me personally, was that I didn't really get anything for my money. So I let my memberships lapse.<br /><br />The one exception to this was ITW. I have a few gripes about them, like any of us do, but for the most part they have been nothing but wonderful to me. They went out of their way to sponsor and promote me and my KILLER YEAR brethren and several of their bigger name members wrote introductions for the Killer Year anthology. <br /><br />Their membership has welcomed me as one of their own from the very beginning. As a newly sold author going to the first ThrillerFest in Arizona, I was treated as if I were an old pro. That first Thrillerfest was and probably always will be the best conference experience I've ever had, and I made many lifelong friends there.<br /><br />And while, like many of you, I always said getting awards was unimportant, I was honored and thrilled when I found out I had been nominated for a Thriller Award this year (even though I wasn't even aware I was up for one.)<br /><br />That said, the other organizations I belonged to didn't really do much but send me junk mail. <br /><br />But here's the thing: that's just me. There are a lot of writers out there who value the MWA and RWA and HWA and Sisters in Crime and Whatever the Hell Else is Out there. A lot of writers are happy to pay a small fee to be part of a club that they feel they earned their way into.<br /><br />And I don't think the membership rules have anything at all to do with elitism. That's a label you slap on them now that things are rapidly changing in the industry. But until -- what? -- five or six months ago, self-pubbed ebooks were still looked upon with disdain by some of the very writers who are singing their praises today.<br /><br />And that's the thing. This "ebooks are king" sentiment is such a new phenomenon that it has taken most of us by surprise. (Except Joe, of course, who we now all realize was a visionary. But he was the lone voice in the wilderness for a long time.)<br /><br />So, I think that maybe we should consider giving the MWA and others a little time. Cut them some slack until they've had a chance to find their way through this uncharted territory and learn to adjust to the new reality. <br /><br />We're all trying to adjust. And such transitions are never easy.Robert Brownehttp://www.robertbrownethrillers.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-79760144311863597582011-06-15T22:58:42.754-05:002011-06-15T22:58:42.754-05:00Wow, it's exactly the same with The Writer'...Wow, it's exactly the same with The Writer's Union of Canada! I just got back from the annual AGM, where I was told by the gatekeepers and big house reps to just stick with the old system (and keep paying my dues). They're happily elite about ebooks 'not counting',all the while moaning that no one is making any money in traditional publishing ... I just kept my mouth shut for fear of a lynching over what i really thought. I haven't sold my five thousand books yet in any format, but I believe I'm more likely to hit that number with ebooks than with the old system. Let the dinosaurs die out, I say. The market should, and will, decide who the future 'professionals' truly are.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-77943253199328966992011-06-15T17:55:16.075-05:002011-06-15T17:55:16.075-05:00if you want to establish a professional standard, ...<i>if you want to establish a professional standard, clearly the only definable standard that matters should be money.</i><br /><br />I haven't made a dime yet, but I have a hardcover published by a legit small press and a top literary agent anxious to sell my next book. So I shouldn't be allowed to join one of the pro organizations if I want to? That doesn't sound quite right either.<br /><br />Selling lots of books is largely a matter of luck. Luck shouldn't be the definable standard for anything.Jude Hardinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09994813046526310594noreply@blogger.com