tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post3384290285611009955..comments2024-03-28T02:00:11.260-05:00Comments on A Newbie's Guide to Publishing: Turow & Patterson: A Plateful of Fail with Extra Helpings of StupidJA Konrathhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comBlogger96125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-16882948391415384632014-07-04T11:10:24.675-05:002014-07-04T11:10:24.675-05:00If this is Scott Turow's best argument, he mus...If this is Scott Turow's best argument, he must've been a terrible lawyer. I'd hate to think of all the innocent people who went to prison or guilty people who were let off because of him.Dustin Dyehttp://www.dustindye.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-35178378502599476202014-06-06T12:09:01.136-05:002014-06-06T12:09:01.136-05:00Greetings! Aren't we giving Patterson a little...Greetings! Aren't we giving Patterson a little too much credit here? I think the man is evil, pure and simple.<br /><br />He wants the government (guys with guns) to shut down the largest marketplace in the US (if not globally) because...his competition has an avenue for publishing? That's it?<br /><br />Patterson is a fascist thug and should be considered enemy #1 to writers everywhere. He and Turow (enemy #2) are arguing for government control of book publishing - which is antithetical to everything that writers and artists (indie or not) stand for.<br /><br />Thanks again Joe for all the posts, news, and fisking of these weasels.Non-Spinning Regular Tiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01670164316396195162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-41466643646039052762014-06-01T11:53:44.370-05:002014-06-01T11:53:44.370-05:00It's hard to feel sorry for someone like Patte...It's hard to feel sorry for someone like Patterson, who has had others write books under his name for many years for a wage, while he rakes in big bucks.Gary Dobbs/Jack Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10935686140719743351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-34491501503809232952014-05-28T16:05:06.237-05:002014-05-28T16:05:06.237-05:00To blindly overlook Amazon's failings and chee...<i>To blindly overlook Amazon's failings and cheer it on just because you like its enemies less, lacks foresight.</i><br /><br />I don't blindly overlook Amazon's failings. I call them on it when it relates to publishing (this blog is about publishing.)<br /><br />And I've never been on the wrong side of an ethical argument. I've been on a side you didn't agree with, but that doesn't make me wrong.JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-33126960750107212332014-05-28T14:31:26.962-05:002014-05-28T14:31:26.962-05:00I can't speak for all warehouse conditions, bu...I can't speak for all warehouse conditions, but I've been to one on four separate occasions and every time I'm amazed at the amenities they offer they're employees on a daily basis. It was nice inside the huge employee lounge. Cherie Markshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09251826824735524360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-65018742924039724402014-05-28T03:50:22.410-05:002014-05-28T03:50:22.410-05:00Anon @5:56:
‘And sure we all like to pay the mini...Anon @5:56:<br /><br />‘And sure we all like to pay the minimum tax but Amazon try to pay relatively no tax.’<br /><br />Amazon makes ‘relatively’ no profit. The company’s net profit margin is less than 1% of turnover. In fiscal 2013, the company had sales of $74.5 billion and a pretax income of just $506 million. Of that income, it paid $161 million in corporate income taxes – an effective tax rate of about 32 percent. Are you paying 32 percent of your income in income tax?<br /><br /><i>And it makes you wonder what kind of corporation is happy to evade paying it on such a huge scale.</i><br /><br />A business corporation. You see, under U.S. law, incorporated businesses have a legally binding duty to their shareholders, one part of which is the duty to earn as much money as they can (within the limits of the law and of the kind of business they are doing). If a corporation is shown to be deliberately refusing to earn money for its shareholders, the shareholders can actually sue the board of directors for damages.<br /><br />(The U.S. is not the only country with such laws, by the way; every country that allows private-sector businesses has something similar in its legal system. However, the U.S. is the relevant case, because that is where Amazon is incorporated.)<br /><br />So, yes, Amazon pays as little tax as it legally can, for the same reason that a driver in the U.S. keeps to the right-hand side of the road: it is against the law not to.<br /><br />Now, what were you complaining about again?<br /><br /><i>Personally, I wouldn't pledge allegiance to any corporation.</i><br /><br />I’m sorry to hear that you are so unpatriotic. You see, in legal terms, governments are also corporations; they just aren’t business corporations. Therefore, they are not required to try to make a profit; they are subject to different laws than businesses, and sometimes they even obey those laws. (*Gasp!*)<br /><br />Governments are incorporated basically for the same reason as businesses: so they can enter into contracts (and be sued for breaking them) in their own name. If you have a beef with Uncle Sam, you can sue the United States (as a corporate body) and not have to send a bailiff round to the White House to sue the President personally; and when Mr. Obama leaves office and somebody else takes over, the new President won’t be able to say, ‘Neener neener neener, <i>I</i> didn’t sign those contracts with you and I don’t have to live up to them.’ The same is true in every country, except for a few very primitive places where the King still treats the entire nation as his personal property (and therefore cannot be sued at all).<br /><br />So if you are a citizen of any country other than one of those primitive monarchies (or an even more primitive anarchy, such as Somalia), then either:<br /><br />(a) you actually have pledged your allegiance to a corporation, or<br />(b) you have no allegiance to your own country.<br /><br />It would behove you to know at least one of these things before offering your opinion about them all. <i>Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.</i>Tom Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16067031472666752839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-65626782079039711922014-05-27T19:41:42.713-05:002014-05-27T19:41:42.713-05:00"Society doesn't work without tax. And it..."Society doesn't work without tax. And it makes you wonder what kind of corporation is happy to evade paying it on such a huge scale."<br /><br />All of them. <br /><br />:-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-58485007573036417512014-05-27T19:22:40.651-05:002014-05-27T19:22:40.651-05:00I don't mean to defend Amazon, but to be clear...I don't mean to defend Amazon, but to be clear state laws require you to pay sales tax on things you buy. In-store, that tax is collected for you. Out-of-state corporations are not required to collect that tax. They don't actually pay it; you do, or are supposed to, but nobody does, so states want to require them to collect and pass that tax along. It doesn't affect how much tax Amazon pays at all one way or the other.Welch's Rarebitshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09183345901778644627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-87185812237851524392014-05-27T17:56:23.644-05:002014-05-27T17:56:23.644-05:00Joe said: "I'm not condoning what Amazon ...<br />Joe said: "I'm not condoning what Amazon does or condemning them. But blue collar isn't pleasant.<br /><br />So let's get over that and get back to the Hachette dispute."<br /><br />Yes but it's just possible that companies that don't treat their employees well have a bad streak running through them.<br /><br />And sure we all like to pay the minimum tax but Amazon try to pay relatively no tax.<br /><br />Society doesn't work without tax. And it makes you wonder what kind of corporation is happy to evade paying it on such a huge scale.<br /><br />All in all it's likely that Amazon's bad behavior will be reflected in other business dealings.<br /><br />Whether this is the case with publishers, it's difficult to say. We're talking about one bad industry facing off with another.<br /><br />At the moment book buyers rejoice at low prices. But it won't be the first time people have rejoiced only to find the carpet pulled from under them.<br /><br />To blindly overlook Amazon's failings and cheer it on just because you like its enemies less, lacks foresight.<br /><br />I remember you being on the wrong side of an ethical argument once before and trying to convince readers that wrong was right.<br /><br />Personally, I wouldn't pledge allegiance to any corporation.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-14821870955941996242014-05-27T16:25:16.755-05:002014-05-27T16:25:16.755-05:00I squawked out loud over whatshisname bitching bec...I squawked out loud over whatshisname bitching because Amazon is selling his books for the MSRP. Are you kidding me, dude?<br /><br />SELLING THE BOOK FOR ITS MARKED PRICE<br /><br />OH THE HUMANITY!<br /><br />SOMEBODY CALL THE GOVERNMENT! BULLYING!!Libbie Hawkerhttp://libbiehawker.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-26452415453992125432014-05-27T15:56:10.097-05:002014-05-27T15:56:10.097-05:00I'm relieved to know they've finally put a...I'm relieved to know they've finally put air conditioning in their warehouses. They should have installed it the first time. <br /><br />I'd like to say that I'm a fan of Amazon and have been a customer for I don't really know how many years. I'm not afraid to criticize them when it's warranted though. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-69487536100414902272014-05-27T12:40:19.566-05:002014-05-27T12:40:19.566-05:00The point then is, who gains from this?
Actually,...<i>The point then is, who gains from this?</i><br /><br />Actually, I think we authors gain from this. It's putting the facts out there for those in the industry, especially those under contract with the Big5. In discourse like this we get to face some of the hard truths in the business.<br /><br />Hachette blusters but you don't see them pulling their titles from Amazon because they'd lose a huge portion of their profit margin. Their contract authors would also start a mass exodus. The way Amazon does business is hugely beneficial to the houses. The reality is, if Amazon were forced out of the industry it would be far more detrimental to authors and consumers than if all 5 big houses went under. Amazon, and other POD/indie publishing options are opening up the market and indie authors put a much bigger chunk of profits into their own pockets.<br /><br />Conversations like this help new writers learn that traditional publishing is no longer the calling card of great writing, instead it is becoming more and more the shackles holding contract authors back from creative and innovative freedom. It also encourages contract authors to really evaluate the deal they have. Look at it honestly and ask yourself, is my publisher providing me with a service that can't be beat? That's what commercial industry is all about after all. For the majority of authors who do the math as business people the old publishing model just isn't relevant to today's market.<br /><br />Regardless of the squabbles between big business, the conversation is worth having because the authors benefit in the long term. Just like any other consumer, we'll vote with out feet. As an indie I love Amazon's terms because they don't monopolise my rights. Even publishing through them I am free to publish elsewhere. I vote for never having all my eggs in one basket and to making my product available to as many customers as possible by distributing widely.<br />Rebecca Laffar-Smithhttp://www.craftingfiction.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-66381972433723708172014-05-27T12:24:22.277-05:002014-05-27T12:24:22.277-05:00"What other industry prints a price on its pr..."What other industry prints a price on its products?"<br /><br />I have a friend who collects knives. One of the jewels of his collection is a very, very poor-quality Swiss-Army sort of knife which a roommate from the Former Soviet Union gave him not long after the fall of the Wall.<br /><br />The scales (the "handle" part, the part that's red plastic on a Swiss Army knife) are made of some kind of casting metal. Clumsily included in the mold, and therefore indelibly part of the knife, is the price.<br /><br />That's what kind of industry puts its prices right on the product.Marc Cabothttp://dreamsofcontrol.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-64399093210743844802014-05-27T03:34:18.981-05:002014-05-27T03:34:18.981-05:00What I think is saddest about all this is the miss...What I think is saddest about all this is the missed opportunity by Amazon's competition.<br /><br />Powell's and Barnes and Noble could put on a Hachette sale - "help the authors by ordering and pre-ordering here and get a special discount." Or even "We have the titles Amazon can't get you." Something along those lines.<br /><br />I would love to see more robust competition for Amazon, but their competitors seem to be asleep at the switch.Stefon Mearshttp://www.stefonmears.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-65873528561741204252014-05-27T02:41:07.737-05:002014-05-27T02:41:07.737-05:00The point then is, who gains from this?
Amazon ge...<i>The point then is, who gains from this?</i><br /><br />Amazon gets negative press, which Hachette hopes will make them more amenable to negotiation if people en masse begin to protest Amazon's behavior.<br /><br />Since Amazon rarely defends itself in the media or public eye, they likely won't comment.<br /><br />Is it helpful? In the long run, no. Anti-Amazon sentiment didn't stop the DoJ for ruling against Apple and the Big 5. Nor has it seemed to hurt Amazon's bottom line. JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-56215508193772333652014-05-26T21:26:28.168-05:002014-05-26T21:26:28.168-05:00I have a simple question, and I don't mean thi...I have a simple question, and I don't mean this in a demeaning or derogatory way toward anyone.<br /><br /><b>Does discussing this action by Amazon help anyone? Anyone at all?</b><br /><br />Granted, it helps Joe. (Hello blog traffic!)<br /><br />Does it help Hatchet? Peterson? Turow?<br /><br />Does it secretly aid Amazon?<br /><br />My take on this is that no one is going to benefit from this public "war". Which isn't one at all.<br /><br />Amazon is using legal, but immoral, pressure tactics on Hatchet. (Yes, we should all play fair, all the time. We <i>should</i>. Very few do, in the modern world. No one in this case is.)<br /><br />The point then is, who gains from this? Who Benefits from the public airing of these issues?<br /><br />If no one does, then I would submit that those involved would be best off holding their own peace. Paterson won't lose from a few delayed books, but he might end up damaging his reputation as a finder of ghost writers. Would you trust someone that whined openly with no hope of affect to choose your books author?<br /><br />Hatchet is in the same boat and Amazon tends to hold to it's silence, having learned that what you don't say seldom really hurts you in the long run.<br /><br />Ad for Turow...<br /><br />Eh, this shows my ignorance, but other than reading about him <i>here</i> I can honestly say that I've never heard of him. He might be a best selling author, but if I've missed him, he probably doesn't want to be standing around crying about how hard the world is, if he wants new readers.<br /><br />So, if any of these people ever read this, here's my lesson for you: Stay positive. Be seen and heard only to say powerful, or at least kind, things.<br /><br />On any other topic, keep your mouth closed.*<br /><br />That's a lesson from the Internet for sure.<br /><br /><br />*Not that I always follow that advice, but I'm slowly learning, and have a bit of time only being half as famous as either of these gentlemen. (Because, you know, I bet the Turow has never heard of me either, which makes us equals there.)<br /><br /><br /><br />P. S. Powerhttp://pspowerbooks.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-56236432436686649012014-05-26T21:06:00.071-05:002014-05-26T21:06:00.071-05:00Come on Joe, I'm a fan but it's been way m...<i>Come on Joe, I'm a fan but it's been way more than 18 people who sued that complained about their warehouse conditions</i><br /><br />I'm referring specifically to the recent one.<br /><br />http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/07/amazon-warehouse-workers-lunch-breaks_n_5283329.html<br /><br />I realize there have been others. And Bezos did install air conditioning. He just didn't announce it to the media.<br /><br />http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/08/18/business/expecting-the-unexpected-from-jeff-bezos.html<br /><br />Again, I'm not defending Amazon, but how many people do they employ vs. how many complain about being treated poorly?<br /><br />Let me put it another way, even though I'll be accused of bias. <br /><br />In many factories, they have a "X Days Without An Accident" sign. <br /><br />Whenever there is a giant construction contract (a skycraper, a stadium, a bridge) the risk assessors figure into the budget the estimated number of people who will die.<br /><br />The USA has lost 18 astronauts.<br /><br />Sports stars and Olympians die on the field.<br /><br />My point? Doing anything worthwhile, there will be mistakes and accidents. And, unfortunately, casualties. My brother in law almost lost his arm in a factory accident. He got compensated a pittance. But if it happened at Amazon, I'd bet it would be worldwide frontpage news.<br /><br />Again, not defending. But the only people who really know how badly Amazon treats its employees are Amazon employees. JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-22122426542419766842014-05-26T20:52:36.374-05:002014-05-26T20:52:36.374-05:00I'm sorry, I just HAVE to fisk ol' jurassi...<i>I'm sorry, I just HAVE to fisk ol' jurassicpork</i><br /><br />As is my style, I reply to comments one at a time. But I see you've said a lot of the same things I said. :)<br /><br /><i>Books of his that were rejected by legacy publishing are now making him hundreds of thousands of dollars</i><br /><br />Shit. I forgot this point. Good catch.<br /><br /><i>The distribution model has changed, permanently, and there is nothing nefarious about it, simply technological progress </i><br /><br />Another point I missed. Kudos.<br /><br /><i>How many printers, typesetters, newspaper writers, classified-ads clerks, truckers, and deliveryboys have been put out of work by craigslist?</i><br /><br />+3 that I missed so far. Now you need to say something I don't agree with so I can debate you. Jurassic Pork isn't testing my limits. :)<br /><br /><i>Note that Joe has not banned, deleted, or disemvowelled you. </i><br /><br />Ban? I like him. I wish I had more dissent.<br /><br />But I admit it is also fun to watch you debate this issue. Maybe I should just STFU and pull up a chair...<br /><br /><i>So, JP, go back under your bridge and gnaw your bones.</i><br /><br />Heh. Troll joke.<br /><br />JP, I don't want you do go under you bridge. I want you to reply to me (or to Hairhead).<br /><br />I want disagreement. I want dissent. I want people to dislike what I say, and be passionate in their responses.<br /><br />The point of this blog is discourse. People mixing it up and adding to the discussion. I have't agreed with you, Robert, but you're welcome here. Hairhead had a better rebuttal than I did, and I was able to hone my argument from his/her response.<br /><br />It's all good. As long as we can keep the insults to gentle ball busting, and we can keep adding to the discussion, I'm all for keeping it going. JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-54173665432179203362014-05-26T20:48:47.571-05:002014-05-26T20:48:47.571-05:00Like to make just one more comment on the warehous...Like to make just one more comment on the warehouses. I don't understand why Amazon can't pay for air conditioning. I'm not saying their employees have to be treated like kings and queens but air conditioning especially in a place like Arizona is not an unreasonable demand. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-43534220996986821862014-05-26T20:38:17.966-05:002014-05-26T20:38:17.966-05:00It is possible that the ability to pay virtually n...<i>It is possible that the ability to pay virtually no tax and treat employees badly are related.</i><br /><br />This debate isn't about Amazon's so-called bad behavior, except in relation to the topic at hand. <br /><br />That said, if I could avoid extra taxes, I would. Wouldn't everyone? Isn't that what accountants are for? How does that make someone evil?<br /><br />And as for employees being treated poorly, my first job was Burger King. I'd rather spend a week in a warehouse than two hours cleaning out the grease trap with a ladel.<br /><br />I worked as a day laborer, laying bricks. I worked in two factories. I did telemarketing. That may have been the worst of all.<br /><br />No, I wasn't ever on an assembly line in a Chinese prison camp, or I didn't work in a coal mine when I was six years old. But I worked too many double shift Mother's Days waiting tables at Red Lobster, and I fully understand how much customers suck and how much bosses suck and how much employment in general sucks.<br /><br />Now I can't comment on how Amazon treats warehouse employees. I'm not privy to it. Neither are you, unless you work there. I don't know how many people work there, and what percentage hate it and are being exploited. I do know that I've hated many jobs, and I feel I've been exploited, and that my wife (who worked with me) probably could have sued for how she was treated at a job, but we let the incident go and moved on.<br /><br />I'm not condoning what Amazon does or condemning them. But blue collar isn't pleasant.<br /><br />So let's get over that and get back to the Hachette dispute.JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-47439273145075510232014-05-26T20:35:43.774-05:002014-05-26T20:35:43.774-05:00Correction: 'way more than the 7 people who su...Correction: 'way more than the 7 people who sued over 18 minute lunch breaks'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-39066745304095206022014-05-26T20:31:53.434-05:002014-05-26T20:31:53.434-05:00Come on Joe, I'm a fan but it's been way m...Come on Joe, I'm a fan but it's been way more than 18 people who sued that complained about their warehouse conditions.<br /><br />http://www.salon.com/2014/02/23/worse_than_wal_mart_amazons_sick_brutality_and_secret_history_of_ruthlessly_intimidating_workers/<br /><br />"On July 25, with temperatures in the depot reaching 110 degrees, a security guard reported to OSHA that Amazon was refusing to open garage doors to help air circulate and that he had seen two pregnant women taken to a nursing station. Calls to the local ambulance service became so frequent that for five hot days in June and July, ambulances and paramedics were stationed all day at the depot." Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-10848355927266839012014-05-26T20:22:23.348-05:002014-05-26T20:22:23.348-05:00like looking for a unicorn in a slaughterhouse
I ...<i>like looking for a unicorn in a slaughterhouse</i><br /><br />I really love that line. And it seems to be original. Kudos, Robert, it's good.JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-37483698785683631742014-05-26T20:19:42.808-05:002014-05-26T20:19:42.808-05:00Denial?
I have seen more than one person drown th...<i>Denial?</i><br /><br />I have seen more than one person drown themselves in denial.JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-63088306742973582422014-05-26T20:18:08.563-05:002014-05-26T20:18:08.563-05:00They forced the technology and the market to chang...<i>They forced the technology and the market to change, they altered the publishing landscape forever</i><br /><br />Okay, you just said that publishing altered the publishing industry forever.<br /><br />Did hamburgers also alter the hamburger industry? <br /><br />Show me how publishing has been forward thinking on something. Anything. What have they innovated? Where have they improved things other than their own profits?<br /><br /><i>But their ultimate goal, if Kindle and the abysmal CreateSpace is any indication,</i><br /><br />I've made $100k on Createspace. How is it abysmal? <br /><br /><i>is to completely phase out traditional publishers, smaller corporate entities whom they loathe and who would be doing much better than they are now if Amazon never existed.</i><br /><br />I won't keep explaining to you how to properly debate, because I'm getting bored.<br /><br />Show me who Amazon has phased out. Shoe me how they loathe smaller corporate entities. And please, PLEASE, explain how the Big 5's largest retail account, which is not only the biggest paper retailer but the biggest ebook retailer because they invented the biggest platform, the retailer that is largely responsible for publishers' record profits these past four years, is not helping them greatly. <br /><br /><i>Amazon has no problem and is quite happy to knee cap authors then point an accusing finger at their publishers and say, "There's your bad guy! Blame them!" </i><br /><br />Can you cite where Amazon said this?<br /><br />I can cite the DoJ, which showed this. <br /><br /><i>and write some series of ignorant ad hominems against me as a result </i><br /><br />Not at all. My ad hominems aren't ignorant. They are very well informed. Your argument sucks, you don't debate well, and you haven't proven anything. But you did win three awards! Hurray!<br /><br /><i>Like the Jewish trustees working at the concentration camps, the fascists running Amazon</i><br /><br />Only three posts to Godwin's Law! We have a record! That's a fourth award for you! Maybe you can build a shelf for them. Get an adult to help you.<br /><br /><i>I'm done here.</i><br /><br />I'll miss you. I'm serious about that. This was fun.<br />JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.com