tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post112921877246058894..comments2024-03-18T06:16:18.802-05:00Comments on A Newbie's Guide to Publishing: Sandy Tooley Part DeuxJA Konrathhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1162572351566216662006-11-03T10:45:00.000-06:002006-11-03T10:45:00.000-06:00I'm jumping in late here, but whatever, I feel lik...I'm jumping in late here, but whatever, I feel like putting in my two-cents... My definition: <I>Art is the purposeful distortion of reality, such that the recognition of the distortion by the audience illuminates some deeper truth about life.</I><BR/><BR/>Entertainment is something different. Can art be entertainment? Sure it can. Is all art entertaining? Of course not. Can so-called "pure entertainment" be art? Yes, if it fits the definition above.<BR/><BR/>The problem with trying to measure artistic merit with sales is that people will pay for either an artistic experience or an artistic experience, and most good books mix a little of both. So there's no good way to attribute which of these merits is accountable for the sale.<BR/><BR/>But if we looked at this from a statistical perspective, I'd bet that you could show a higher correlation between "pure entertainment" and sales than you could between obvious attempts at "pure art" and sales. Would there be exceptions? Sure, and the exceptions would prove the rule.<BR/><BR/>For the writer, it comes down to a mixture of choice, aptitude, and the *current* taste of the public.<BR/><BR/>You have total control over the effect you *choose* to generate when you write a book. You can choose to write an entertaining page-turner that doesn't strive to produce any artistic effect whatsoever; you can choose to pen a literary masterpiece that illuminates the deeper truths of life on multiple levels; you can choose to do both all at the same time...<BR/><BR/>But you only have a *little* control over how well you pull it off. Everyone is limited by their current abilities, inborn talent, experience, and work ethic. And aside from trying to give the public what you *think* it wants, you have little control over consumer whims which can change much faster than most of us can write a novel.<BR/><BR/>Personally, my primary aim is to write novels that entertain as many people as possible. My secondary aim is to write them with at least a minimum level of artistry (as I define it above). My belief is that this combination of entertainment vs. artistic merit will lead to big sales, and hopefully longevity as well.<BR/><BR/>This is an excellent blog, Mr. Konrath. One of the best I've seen on the web on any subject. Kudos. And thanks for sharing your expertise.<BR/><BR/>~Jeremy James<BR/><A HREF="http://www.authorjeremyjames.com" REL="nofollow">www.authorjeremyjames.com</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1130035044072998282005-10-22T21:37:00.000-05:002005-10-22T21:37:00.000-05:00A book in a month? Hemingway would turn over in Ke...A book in a month? Hemingway would turn over in Ketchum Cemetery to hear that. It's unheard of.Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15222366707246731960noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1129582354414596822005-10-17T15:52:00.000-05:002005-10-17T15:52:00.000-05:00I've struggled with band names for years but my ne...I've struggled with band names for years but my nephew offered up one this:<BR/><BR/>The Boxing Ghandis.<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, it was taken. <BR/><BR/>A Story: Once upon a time I worked on a railroad track gang and was 12 cents short the price of rolling tobacco. I shared a trailer in the track yard with an older black man whose name I've forgotten. I asked if I could borrow 12 cents and he asked why. I told him. He threw a quarter at me and said, "No man should be 12 cents shy of nothin'."<BR/><BR/>Name of the band?<BR/><BR/>Twelve Cents Shy<BR/><BR/>Whatta ya think? Is it art?<BR/><BR/>I knew I could make this on-topic if I wrote long enough.<BR/><BR/>More on topic: I couldn't have sold fewer copies of Beneath A Panamanian Moon if I'd xeroxed the pages and stapled them together.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1129520928047642762005-10-16T22:48:00.000-05:002005-10-16T22:48:00.000-05:00Self publishing:I still am willing to look at ever...Self publishing:<BR/>I still am willing to look at everybook we get. I put books into two main catagories, books that suck and books that don't.<BR/>A lot of self published books we get aren't very good. But there are enough good ones out there to make me willing to keep reading them, or at least give them a chance.<BR/><BR/>As a reviewer and publisher I do prefer people to be up front about selfpublishing. But it's also pretty easy to find out if that's the case.<BR/><BR/>Crimespree #9 will have a review of Jim Hansen's book. Our reviewer enjoyed it and I'm looking forward to it.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Re: Art:<BR/><BR/>Who judges what is art?<BR/>Me.<BR/><BR/>At least for myself.I don't buy into popularity regulating what I enjoy. If that were the case I'd miss out on a lot. But art is subjective. What I consider art might well be considered recyclables by someone else. It's an age old debate with no clear answer.<BR/>So I judge for myself.Jon The Crime Spree Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09516077426733561884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1129498789724892572005-10-16T16:39:00.000-05:002005-10-16T16:39:00.000-05:00I believe in archetypes, or at least in inhereted ...I believe in archetypes, or at least in inhereted memory. But that is chemical.<BR/><BR/>Muses? I know that some people need to be inspired before they write. <BR/><BR/>I don't.<BR/><BR/>It takes me a month to write a book--and often during the process, I feel as if I'm simply a conduit for the story. I wouldn't call it magic, but I know that not many folks have that ability.<BR/><BR/>One of the reasons I don't take drugs is because I'd hate to lose my creativity. Many artists use drugs to enhance their ability. I've found that drugs hamper my ability.<BR/><BR/>Just because I believe art is a commodity, doesn't mean I negate its importance. I just don't think it has to be quasi-mystical.JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1129495707989943772005-10-16T15:48:00.000-05:002005-10-16T15:48:00.000-05:00Yeah... that drummer can beat the skins all night ...Yeah... that drummer can beat the skins all night long.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Boy, that joke works on at least three different levels.JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1129494259823662002005-10-16T15:24:00.000-05:002005-10-16T15:24:00.000-05:00Dammit! Spankula was stolen!It's only a matter of ...Dammit! Spankula was stolen!<BR/><BR/>It's only a matter of time before someone steals Ten Hour Priapism...JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1129490109898142182005-10-16T14:15:00.000-05:002005-10-16T14:15:00.000-05:00If I were you, I'd copyright "Count Spankula" imme...If I were you, I'd copyright "Count Spankula" immediately. Otherwise, you'll eventually discover that Count Spankula is Southern Indiana's most popular disco-funk covers band.<BR/><BR/>Also, I believe that "Grandma Smells Funny" already exists, in a fashion: The Grandma Smellsfunny doll was Mattel's least successful product launch of the 1970s. <BR/><BR/>-SteveSteve Hockensmithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00842992703764341722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1129486220446066222005-10-16T13:10:00.000-05:002005-10-16T13:10:00.000-05:00On an unrealted note, I was indulging int he time-...On an unrealted note, I was indulging int he time-honored tradition of Googling myself, and found an old post I'd made on Dave Barry's website about bad names for rock bands. <BR/><BR/>Here are my suggestions:<BR/><BR/>Rabbi Moil and the Tips<BR/>Count Spankula<BR/>Bloody Painful Urination<BR/>Unexplained Discharge<BR/>Tubby and the Tummy Rubbers<BR/>Lexdyscia <BR/>Vomiting Liver Flukes <BR/>Rockternal Emission <BR/>Erectile Disfunction<BR/>KY and the Fallouts<BR/>Kicked in the McNuggets <BR/>The Funky Butt Dunkers <BR/>Blundering Dunderschmucks <BR/>Savage Movement <BR/>Cup Full of Roofies <BR/>Ten Hour Priapism <BR/>Intestinal Distress <BR/>The Wrong Hole<BR/>Mold<BR/><BR/>I'd add to the list:<BR/><BR/>Hip Replacement<BR/>Innappropriate Touching<BR/>Grunty and the Paste Eaters<BR/>Picking Scabs<BR/>Orchidectomy<BR/>Grandma Smells FunnyJA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1129479267214803712005-10-16T11:14:00.000-05:002005-10-16T11:14:00.000-05:00I think many things are great art.But my opinion m...I think many things are great art.<BR/><BR/>But my opinion matters only to me. Unless society agrees with me, the art I think is great will fade into obscurity.<BR/><BR/>That's my point.<BR/><BR/>For art to be considered great in a society, it has to reach many people. What will allow art to do that? Distribution. What fuels distribution? Money.<BR/><BR/>If a book goes out of print, it is not great art by society standards.<BR/><BR/>There is nothing intrinsic in a movie, painting, or book that makes it great art. The reactions that art ellicits in a person is not a quality inherent in the art. <BR/><BR/>Art is neither good nor bad. Human response to art dictates whther it is good or bad. It is subjective.<BR/><BR/>The more who respond positively, the more revered the artist is. That is objective.<BR/><BR/>Magic? Muses? We're organic carbon based life forms which evolution endowed with oversized brains. Our brains give us the unfortunate side-effect of self-awareness, which in turn leads to an ego and a demand for there to be 'more' in the universe.<BR/><BR/>I could give you pills to make you happy or sad. Through surgery, I could carefully take out the part of your mind that recognizes color, or short term memory, or emotion, or empathy, or creativity.<BR/><BR/>But getting back to art. :)<BR/><BR/>You can only recognize greatness in art if you are exposed to the art. The same for everyone on the planet.<BR/><BR/>No exposure = no greatness.<BR/><BR/>Things can only exist through sensory experience.<BR/><BR/>I'd be happy to debate the a priori, as Empiricism vs. Rationalism is the core of my arguement.<BR/><BR/>If there is some brilliant masterpiece in some locked trunk somewhere, and the trunk is never opened, it is as if the masterpiece never existed. How else could you prove the existence of the masterpiece?<BR/><BR/>At a trial, the witnesses are called to testify. Not the 5 billion people who didn't witness anything.<BR/><BR/>The burden of proof falls on the person claiming experience.<BR/><BR/>I'm claiming art is a popularity contest. I'm positing that our greatest artists are those known by the greatest number of people.<BR/><BR/>Since no one has polled the entire world and asked for them to name the greatest artists, I'm choosing to use a system already in place---the economy--- to show what art we consider to be great.<BR/><BR/>Here's a website which lists the ten greatest paintings of mankind:<BR/><BR/>http://humanitiesweb.org/human.php?s=g&p=a&a=i&ID=523<BR/><BR/>I may not agree with all the choices, but I recognize all the choices that were picked, because they are the MOST POPULAR works of art the world knows.<BR/><BR/>If the Sistene Chapel had burned to the ground, it would not be #1 on the list. If it was never open to tourism, it would not be on the list (because only a handful of people would know about it).JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1129478695862970542005-10-16T11:04:00.000-05:002005-10-16T11:04:00.000-05:00The more people that perceive something to be art,...<I>The more people that perceive something to be art, the more likely the artist will be <BR/>considered great.</I> <BR/><BR/>But you gotta concede, this isn't quite the same as your initial assertion (that art is a popularity contest, and the greatest artists are the ones who sell the most).<BR/><BR/>Part of the reason your position is so difficult to sink is that it's sort of a combination of the tree falling in the woods (if an artist is unknown, how can that artist be considered great) and the chicken/egg problem (which comes first? Artistic merit or popularity?).<BR/><BR/>But it's ultimately kinda circular. You're assuming what you mean to conclude (that more popular = better).<BR/><BR/>I don't really have a problem saying that all art is entertainment, but it doesn't follow that all entertainment is art. That's where all the subjectivity in the world kicks in. <BR/><BR/>In any case, popularity in and of itself isn't an indicator of anything except popularity. And infinite factors having absolutely no relationship to the content of a work can have a direct bearing on a work's popularity.<BR/><BR/><I>Those artists who are remembered, who are taught in schools, who resonate in our social consciousness, are the ones who managed to touch the most people. If they hadn't touched people, they wouldn't be remembered. Or they'd only be remembered by a few. It comes down to distribution, profit, and popularity. </I><BR/><BR/>Yeah, but seriously, those artists aren't remembered BECAUSE they are popular, are they? If popularity were the root factor, everybody who moves x number of units would be taught in schools.<BR/><BR/>Admittedly, that doesn't refute your point. Based on your case for Britney Spears as singing artist of the decade, I'd say you're being pretty consistent to your position on that front. In the chicken and the egg question, you've decided: chicken.<BR/><BR/>I disagree, but given the extreme subjectivity involved in the question of art, your system is probably no more or less arbitrary than any other. I have no problem believing that if you can convince enough people, next century's university lit curricula will be based on our current NYT bestseller lists. Maybe they would be anyway.<BR/><BR/>SDAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1129440257657340252005-10-16T00:24:00.000-05:002005-10-16T00:24:00.000-05:00You never would have read Huckleberry Finn if it h...You never would have read Huckleberry Finn if it hadn't been in print.<BR/><BR/>Why is it still in print? Because it continues to earn money.JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1129440188319288332005-10-16T00:23:00.000-05:002005-10-16T00:23:00.000-05:00Love is a chemical reaction.If you want to compare...Love is a chemical reaction.<BR/><BR/>If you want to compare that to art, you could say that art provokes a similar chemical reaction.<BR/><BR/>But the art that provokes the largest reaction int he largest number of people is the art that is remembered.<BR/><BR/>TheJA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1129428277918904142005-10-15T21:04:00.000-05:002005-10-15T21:04:00.000-05:00I'm trying to understand your arguement, but it ai...I'm trying to understand your arguement, but it ain't logical.<BR/><BR/>Why is Fargo better than BioDome? You can talk about meaning and depth and art and all that crap, but it comes down to this:<BR/><BR/>More people think Fargo is better than BioDome.<BR/><BR/>Popularity wins.<BR/><BR/>If people don't consider Jay Leno or Brittany Spears to be 'great' then why are they so popular?JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1129423922671474982005-10-15T19:52:00.000-05:002005-10-15T19:52:00.000-05:00And Santa Claus *is* real -- in each and every one...And Santa Claus *is* real -- in each and every one of our hearts.<BR/><BR/>Bleah.<BR/><BR/>-SteveSteve Hockensmithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00842992703764341722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1129423818731681822005-10-15T19:50:00.000-05:002005-10-15T19:50:00.000-05:00Where, Joe, does anyone say that awards are synono...Where, Joe, does anyone say that awards are synonomous with great art? Dude, you're like a machine. Someone mentions the word "award" in a sentence and your CPU whirs and blinks and spits out the same rote lines, even if they don't respond to the point actually being made. <BR/><BR/>And am I the only one who notices that this -- "The more people that perceive something to be art, the more likely the artist will be considered great" -- is in fact not what your position was in the beginning? Your original assertion was much more simple: popularity = greatness. I guess maybe I should be satisfied somehow, since this is the closest I think you'll ever come to conceding that someone else might have a point.<BR/><BR/>But enough. I'm very tired. <BR/><BR/>In the end, perhaps Lucy Van Pelt said it best. I'll let her have the last word on my end. And why not? It's your blog, Joe, and she agrees with you:<BR/><BR/>"How can you say someone is great who's never had their picture on a bubblegum card?"<BR/><BR/>-SteveSteve Hockensmithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00842992703764341722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1129423107372738592005-10-15T19:38:00.000-05:002005-10-15T19:38:00.000-05:00Also, Santa Claus isn't real.Also, Santa Claus isn't real.JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1129417701815984462005-10-15T18:08:00.000-05:002005-10-15T18:08:00.000-05:00Groucho Marx is considered an artistic genius. Giv...Groucho Marx is considered an artistic genius. Give Paulie Shore a few decades...<BR/><BR/>I hated Hannibal. But society bought it in great numbers.<BR/><BR/>As for awards being synonymous with great art, did you ever try to sit through Best Picture Chariots of Fire? A snooze fest. <BR/><BR/>And Will and Grace has won so many Emmy's it's staggering.<BR/><BR/>Look--eveyone has their own perception of art.<BR/><BR/>The more people that perceive something to be art, the more likely the artist will be considered great.JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1129415776230363172005-10-15T17:36:00.000-05:002005-10-15T17:36:00.000-05:00SNIP -- And no one is addressing my main point: Th...SNIP -- And no one is addressing my main point: The more well-known an artist is in a society, the greater the artist is considered within that society. -- UNSNIP<BR/><BR/>Sigh. Just when I thought I'm out, they drrrrrrag me back in!<BR/><BR/>Joe, I did address the point above -- a few times, actually. I addressed it when I said that even Pauly Shore fans wouldn't argue that his films deserve awards and hosannas. They just like 'em. And I addressed it when I said that even Shirley Temple fans wouldn't try to convince anyone that her films are "great art." Even the FANS know there's a distinction between entertainment and art, man! <BR/><BR/>As do most of the people in the entertainment industry. "The Brady Bunch" and "Gilligan's Island" were very popular. Tell the guy that created them, Sherwood Schwartz, that they were "great art," and he'd laugh in your face. Ditto the guys churning out one-liners for "Will & Grace." I would be very, very surprised if anyone on the "King of Queens" writing staff thinks they're superior artists to David Chase simply because more people watch their show than "The Sopranos."<BR/><BR/>I mean, dude -- come on. Does society at large really consider Britney Spears or Jessica Simpson "great"? Do the millions of people who watch Jay Leno every night consider him "great," as in "He's a great artist"? I don't think so. They think he's funny, and they watch him in large numbers and he's popular as a result. Who thinks he's Picasso? Other than you?<BR/><BR/>-SteveSteve Hockensmithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00842992703764341722noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1129413187055718542005-10-15T16:53:00.000-05:002005-10-15T16:53:00.000-05:00Silence of the Lambs has got me thinking.Joe, let ...Silence of the Lambs has got me thinking.<BR/><BR/>Joe, let me ask a cheeky question: do you count Hannibal as good art? After all, it sold like a beast and yet I'll bet you'd be one of the first people to say it was a bad novel. So why did it sell? Was it down to the quality of the novel or the quality of the PR surrounding the novel?Russelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08882590221382217329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1129412715974074362005-10-15T16:45:00.000-05:002005-10-15T16:45:00.000-05:00I'm waiting for someone to convince me to change m...I'm waiting for someone to convince me to change my mind.<BR/><BR/>One of the things I teach is manuscript critiquing. I looked at narratives, saw what made them work, and created a numeric scale with which they could be graded.<BR/><BR/>If someone could do that with 'art,' and say exactly what it is that makes art great, I'd be happy to listen to their points.<BR/><BR/>Instead, I'm getting a bunch of people who are saying, "Yes, art is subjective, but Fargo is still better than Airplane."<BR/><BR/>And no one is addressing my main point: The more well-known an artist is in a society, the greater the artist is considered within that society.<BR/><BR/>If we took an unsigned Miro and some unknown woman who paints, and hung them side by side and had people pick the one they like more, you'd get many people picking the unknown.<BR/><BR/>But if you gave people a written poll and asked, "Who is the better artist, Miro or Nancy Goldstein?" more people would pick Miro because Miro is famous.<BR/><BR/>How did Miro get famous? Popularity. Miro hangs in museums. Miro commands top dollars. Miro is taught in schools. Miro is in books. <BR/><BR/>So until Nancy Goldstein reaches millions of people, Miro will be considered superior.<BR/><BR/>This is my point. <BR/><BR/>I don't think the artists that our society reveres are our greatest artists. I like plenty of writers more than Twain, Hemingway, Shakespeare, and Austin. I like plenty of painters more than Picasso. I like plenty of musicians more than Nickelback.<BR/><BR/>But my person preferences don't matter, unless they catch on with other people.<BR/><BR/>Artists can only be considered great if they catch on. Or else they fade into obscurity and will never be known by anyone.JA Konrathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08778324558755151986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1129410292383074252005-10-15T16:04:00.000-05:002005-10-15T16:04:00.000-05:00Paris Hilton's dog isn't old enough to have a memo...Paris Hilton's dog isn't old enough to have a memoir.... ;)crissachappellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14508935314449103606noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1129403994403828732005-10-15T14:19:00.000-05:002005-10-15T14:19:00.000-05:00Another correction: Ditto for Crime Spree Magazine...Another correction: Ditto for Crime Spree Magazine. Thanks, Jon.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01234972022475955356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1129403932789558712005-10-15T14:18:00.001-05:002005-10-15T14:18:00.001-05:00Correction: Crime Scene Scotland. Sorry, Russel.Correction: Crime Scene Scotland. Sorry, Russel.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01234972022475955356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11291165.post-1129403880393331102005-10-15T14:18:00.000-05:002005-10-15T14:18:00.000-05:00At the risk of digressing, I want to give Russel a...At the risk of digressing, I want to give Russel and Crime Spree Magazine a shout-out for extending review opportunities to all authors. As more and more good titles come from untraditional sources, I think we'll see the Russel's of the world increase in number. Right now, however, he is at the forefront of a developing trend and provides a much needed service to both authors and readers. I say this even though he called the proponent of Night Laws, namely Bryson Coventry, "glossy!" Smiles, Jim.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01234972022475955356noreply@blogger.com